Originally Posted by Herkflyr (Post 1413448)

And the seventh short call will be implemented only when FAR 117 is implemented, which reduces the short call time to 14 hours. For domestic guys, yes it is a concession. For anyone who could fly anything outside the CONUS, it is an improvement, as they can currently sit short call for 24 hours--then fly a full duty day to Europe!

Old system: six short calls; for anyone subject to potential international flying, the short calls could be scheduled at 24 hours each for 144 potential short call hours...AND for international ops, time spent on short call does NOT count against any duty day limits.

New system: seven short calls at 14 hours each equals 98 potential short call hours, AND all time spent on short call is included in a pilot's duty day, regardless of whether he is flying domestic or international operations (no more 18 hours on short call, then you get to fly an allnighter to SA or Europe).

DISCLAIMER: FAR 117 will be very complex and I am simplifying some things. However it seems to me we are better off in the aggregate. The bottom line is that there will not be any carveouts for international vice domestic, and time spent on call WILL count towards duty day regardless of where you may or may not fly.

Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1413822)

This post just ****es me off. Are you for us or against us? The new FAR's will make what we are currently doing illegal because it is dangerous so you feel we should give a concession to keep from hurting the company? Again, who's side are you on? The domestic side will flat out being hurt by this. If it was really a make or break item for the company, we could have left the domestic side alone. I'm really tired of hearing about our 12.5 percent raise. It is a 4 percent signing bonus raise followed by a 6.5 percent raise. It's a 10.8 raise rounding up. If you get part of the raise from profit sharing, you don't get to count it. So we get a 7.8 percent raise + 3 percent COLA. We then get two more COLA. We actually gave up scope allowing more regional jets to get this. We failed miserably. I was a hell no vote. The more I think about it, the more it bothers me. Our increase in health insurance next year will easily eat my 3 percent. I'm disgusted. I initially thought a 40 percent raise on day 1 was fair. Then I decided that I was probably being unrealistic so I cut it in half to about a 20-25 percent raise on day 1. I never in a million years thought my own union was going to agree to a 10.8 percent raise in exchange for allowing more regional jets. The fact that our union can't admit it made a mistake really bothers me.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1413814)

I'm really glad ATL is working on minimizing the length of the ATIS.

http://i43.tinypic.com/4lgieo.jpg

I don't know why it keeps showing up sideways like that...

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1413817)

The guys who think we get plenty of time off have the votes.
The guys who think $150,000 is plenty of money have the votes.
Probably their Dad never made that much. They are able to live comfortably and conservatively in a nice middle class neighborhood where they already make more money than most of the people living around them and they don't see why we should rock the boat excessively or take undue risks in pursuit of more.

Its them we need to reach.

We need to convince those guys that we are not just blue collar labor. We have skills and assume responsibilities comparable with top surgeons or lawyers or engineers and we deserve comparable compensation.

We need to figure out a way to enlighten those guys who are satisfied with our current pay rates and work rules. If we don't, then ALPA will continue to be successful in managing our expectations and convincing us that we aren't worth $300,000 and the company couldn't afford it even if we were.

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1413838)

I see where you're going with this, I really do. We as a profession in general and at DL specifically do deserve more and we should negotiate hard for it. But be careful with that broad brush you're painting with. There are plenty of ballers out there who are absolute slaves to their maxed out monthly nuts and "can't afford" the slightest pay cut and will therefore vote yes for anything that throws a buck at them.

Those who live below their means in this job may or may not be doing so because they are satisfied and don't want more from this profession, but its definately not fair to assume that. But one thing those folks have in common is that they don't desperately need that next paycheck to keep the churn of their over leveraged credit bubble check kiting master plan from collapsing on top of itself. In many ways that makes those individuals far more potentially hawkish in negotiations precicely because they can walk away if necessary.

Just because someone doesn't blow it all on a "Captain's house" a driveway full of toys and a bunch of 6 figure degrees in Art History Appreciation for their kids doesn't mean they are willing to settle for their current income. The guy that's maxed out, however, just might have no other choice.

Originally Posted by SailorJerry (Post 1413743)

There's no way in my category that I'd get anywhere close to ALV with the pathetic productivity of our trips. I wouldn't honestly mind the extra money though since I'm in base on a trip, or sitting short call, 18 days a month. I'd rather make ALV+15 - if for no other reason than to make more than you - because I'm fairly certain you aren't getting ALV+15.

You all continue to act like you were barraged with horrible, malicious things from this new PWA - is this the entitled pilots club?

And before you go on trying to discredit me because of what I said about medical records, again, you blow stuff out of context because you very likely went to a lousy public school and failed to grasp reading comprehension. You know - like placing words into context to extract the writer's meaning? The contract states that a pilot may be required to sign a release of medical records for limited information. Information that is limited to the specific sickness that you called in sick for, the days immediately proceeding and following the sick days, and then it only goes to specific people in the company. AND this, and ONLY this, after the Chief Pilot has elected to ask the pilot to state the nature of his illness and considered the explanation of the illness to require further/additional information. If you read the contract and apply it in the manner in which it would be applied in an operational context you'd find it to be the manner in which the company would fire pilots like you for "using their sick time because it's theirs to use at their discretion". (read - I accuse you of calling in sick when you're not sick).

What the company can't get to is the rest of stuff that you've likely kept hidden from the FAA - which is what you're really worried and paranoid about.

Get over yourself - and +2 and +3 - if you have so little to add, your (your spelled correctly in this context) credibility is about as pathetic as it gets. I don't crave the acceptance of any of you, or want to be "right" like Carl thinks he is. More correctly, I own stock in AstraZeneca (the maker of Prilosec) and the stress this must cause you will improve the earnings of the company.

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 1413674)

Really?? Don't you think that if DALPA even started to think about loosening Scope the DPA (or something similar) would be voted in very quickly starting a ALPA death spiral?

Our days of Scope concessions are over and I sure hope that DALPA also realizes this.

Scoop

Originally Posted by scambo1 (Post 1413845)

^^This is more how I see it.

I fly with guys all the time that are upside down and they don't quit digging. They have to vote yes. I don't understand how you can get that messed up financially, but that is how I'm wired.

A recent "wow" moment was one guy telling me how he was going to retire this september because he invested all his money in a concert promoter in asia. Everytime he goes there the guy takes him out to dinner and sets him up with a hooker... Really...You're going to retire this september, huh?

"Welcome to walmart. Would you like fries with that?"