His graphs show total system departures/seats, ignoring stage length, and INCLUDING regionals. That's why Delta is going to soon be hiring, even though overall ASMs are essentially flat.

What if the guy swapping into said base is jr to a guy who has been trying to bid into that base for a while? I think it sounds like a way to circumvent seniority. We had this at my last airline only there was a period where a sr pilot who saw that a pilot jr to him swapped into a base was allowed to "steal" it. The whole thing was a mess and led to many heated crew room discussions. Straight seniority category bids are if nothing else transparent.

You know, I didn't even think about that.:eek:

I think the way we currently do it flies in the face of economics. It encourages the old to work until they die.

Isn't a partner a part owner of the firm? I don't know any pilots that are part owners of the airline (other than owning a few shares).

I equate this to the difference between captain and first officer.

The company does not want the old guys to make less. It wants the guys that have been here longest to make less. Age has nothing to do with it. The company does not want longevity taken out of it. If every company did it, our leverage would start going up. I'll tell you what's in it for the senior guys. If their company ever liquidates, they will be able to start over at a reasonable wage. Ideally we would have a national seniority list where you could take your skills somewhere else. Unfortunately we as a whole are too naive to think our company could ever fail. We laugh at the other groups who's airlines are struggling. I am talking about all airline pilots, not a specific group. My idea will never happen. It would give us way too much leverage. It is also against what we have always dealt with in this profession. Longevity pay might actually happen, but it will not help us as a whole. That is why management would take us up on it. It would be similar to when the 757/767 categories were merged here. Look at the 767 pay compared to the 767-400/330 pay. The 767 pay is closer to 737 pay. Longevity pay will be a concession.

I think Johnson asked a legit question earlier. Does that graph include regionals? I'm no expert, but I would think if we were shrinking at +5 percent, there would be a lot more grief around here. Just wondering.

Don't returning furloughees get to chose where they go, that is, if they can hold it they can bid it? I'm pretty sure we had some furlough returnees in our class in 08 that weren't part of the class bid, they'd already put down where they wanted to go.

Nope, they go where they are needed.

I know your workload hasn't probably changed month to month on the 330, but on the NB fleets we've been getting hammered (not just in the summer-going back to december or so). I maxed out above ALV the last two months. So hiring would be a welcome sign. More people means less ramming that we get..the rammings get spread around a little more. That's how it would keep my spirits up hearing about hiring.

We had this at my previous airline as well. There was a clause where anyone senior to either one doing the swap could deny it. No swaps went through. There was always someone who would lose seniority in a category.

Could they have been mil leave returns? They are treated differently from furlough bypass guys.