Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-01-2013, 07:30 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Columbia
Yep-got completely played.
Originally Posted by Columbia
DALs market capitalization has increased by $7 Billion since the contract ratification. Historic profits, stock options payouts, stock buy backs, dividend payments and dalpa fell for the bluff at the poker table that there was simply no more $$$ to be had.
I believe the exact same thing is happening again regarding the NRT slots and JV. DALPA has already provided relief as requested by management. Our MEC is now simply taking care to produce the properly worded documents to show why they did what they've already done.
Carl
09-01-2013, 07:47 AM
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by slowplay
You quoted a guy on my ignore list talking about "cola pay raises". Contract 2012 puts his super premium pay rate at $270.25 plus 15% DC on 1/1/15. The highest pay rate he ever had prior to the merger was $264.96 plus 3% MPPP. BTW, it's still not enough.
Originally Posted by slowplay
You quoted those pay raises were "fully funded by productivity concessions and profit sharing reductions". The net productivity increase was about 125 jobs across a 10,500 pilot system. The profit sharing transition to pay ranged from $0 at no profit to $42 million at $2.5 billion in profit. The C2012 pay rate/DC increases were over 20% and worth $400 million annually in 2015. Not "fully funded", "cost neutral" or "offset" by a long shot.
Carl
09-01-2013, 08:19 AM
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,870
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Scoop and Jay5150,
First of all I'm sorry you guys ended up getting furloughed, it sucked.
Here is how I remember it. Yes guys were flying green slips while you were out on furlough. I don't think they should have been doing it. Unfortunately there is that pesky "status quo" thingy with the NMB and we had the 49ers to prove that Delta would come after the Union and individuals in court to enforce this. I think there is at least one of them that frequents this forum. He could tell you more.
That being said, I pretty sure the price of a green slip from 2X to 1.5X and the "Furlough Protection Letter" were a result of the side letter of agreement (46 I think) that took effect in Nov. 2004 to try to avoid bankruptcy. At the time I thought it was essentially a new contract. The "Furlough Protection Letter" was a casualty of the Bankruptcy process. One thing I would like to know, if we have/had such great lawyers, why didn't they know the "Furlough Protection Letter" wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
The following is not aimed at you guys, it's just my feelings. This is all behind us and I choose to look forward rather than dwell in the past. I know that "those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it." I'm all for trying to correct the inequities of the contract and hopefully we will. I am very optimistic about the future of our Company and what we should be able to negotiate in our next contract.
And like someone else said, I'm very thankful that, after 25 years, I STILL ENJOY GOING TO WORK! (Granted, we would all like to be independently wealthy and not have to work!) I know most all, if not all, of you out there in APC Land can say the same thing. That's a testament to this pilot group. Truthfully, how many people in other industries can honestly say that they enjoy going to work?
I'll get off the soapbox now. Move along, nothing to see here.....
Denny
First of all I'm sorry you guys ended up getting furloughed, it sucked.
Here is how I remember it. Yes guys were flying green slips while you were out on furlough. I don't think they should have been doing it. Unfortunately there is that pesky "status quo" thingy with the NMB and we had the 49ers to prove that Delta would come after the Union and individuals in court to enforce this. I think there is at least one of them that frequents this forum. He could tell you more.
That being said, I pretty sure the price of a green slip from 2X to 1.5X and the "Furlough Protection Letter" were a result of the side letter of agreement (46 I think) that took effect in Nov. 2004 to try to avoid bankruptcy. At the time I thought it was essentially a new contract. The "Furlough Protection Letter" was a casualty of the Bankruptcy process. One thing I would like to know, if we have/had such great lawyers, why didn't they know the "Furlough Protection Letter" wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
The following is not aimed at you guys, it's just my feelings. This is all behind us and I choose to look forward rather than dwell in the past. I know that "those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it." I'm all for trying to correct the inequities of the contract and hopefully we will. I am very optimistic about the future of our Company and what we should be able to negotiate in our next contract.
And like someone else said, I'm very thankful that, after 25 years, I STILL ENJOY GOING TO WORK! (Granted, we would all like to be independently wealthy and not have to work!) I know most all, if not all, of you out there in APC Land can say the same thing. That's a testament to this pilot group. Truthfully, how many people in other industries can honestly say that they enjoy going to work?
I'll get off the soapbox now. Move along, nothing to see here.....
Denny
Denny,
Good post. My whole point is that I think DALPA had a great opportunity and missed it. I agree - lets move on.
Scoop
09-01-2013, 08:20 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Scoop
So how does this make me wrong? Are you denying that the Status-quo regarding greesn-slips changed? We now had had no "status quo." Status-quo is what shut down the no Green-slip campaign earlier. DALPA had another chance and choose not to pursue it. Maybe the reason was to avoid a double furlough as you say above but I doubt they would have been able to furlough without guys flying green-slips.
I was furloughed, then recalled and hundreds were still furloughed. I remember tons of Greesn-slips going out this time and DALPA was OK with it.
Any other furloughed guys remember Green-slips going out at this time?
Its really not worth arguing at this point. Most realize that DALPA will never, ever admit that it could have actually done something just a little bit better .............ever.
It must be nice to be perfect.
Scoop
I was furloughed, then recalled and hundreds were still furloughed. I remember tons of Greesn-slips going out this time and DALPA was OK with it.
Any other furloughed guys remember Green-slips going out at this time?
Its really not worth arguing at this point. Most realize that DALPA will never, ever admit that it could have actually done something just a little bit better .............ever.
It must be nice to be perfect.
Scoop
09-01-2013, 08:25 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
In other news, it is becoming too contaminated at Fukishima to safely work there. Yet, somebody must work there to prevent several disasters from occurring, disasters which could happen anyway. Some scientists have been stating all along that Tokyo should have been evacuated. The primary consideration of the Japanese government, then and now, is preventing the failure of the government. They determined an evacuation of Tokyo would result in collapse of Japanese civil order.
Long story short, both Narita and Haneda may be a place no one wants to go to, or worse, inside an exclusion zone. Someone will eventually want the numbers on inflight risks over the Pacific. I sure hope this does not get very, very, ugly for us.
Long story short, both Narita and Haneda may be a place no one wants to go to, or worse, inside an exclusion zone. Someone will eventually want the numbers on inflight risks over the Pacific. I sure hope this does not get very, very, ugly for us.
09-01-2013, 08:39 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Hey FtB, how does one upload an excel or PDF file? Do you have to convert it to a jpeg or gif first?
The payrate for the 744 was from the NWA CBA dated 22Nov2004. The total rate, inclusive of the MPPP was $273.15. I adjusted it for the MPPP number from Section 1.L.2 to get the actual cash pay rate of $264.96 + the 3% MPPP.
L. Retirement Savings Plan Contributions
L.1. The Company shall make employer contributions to the Retirement Savings Plan under Section 3.5.1. of said plan at a rate of 3% of Recognized Compensation (as defined in the Retirement Savings Plan).
L.2. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in the collective bargaining agreement, the compensation of each pilot who is a Participant in the Retirement Savings Plan shall be reduced semimonthly in such a manner so as to offset, dollar for dollar, the amount contributed by the Company to said pilot’s Employer Contribution Account as an employer contribution.
It's still not enough.
The payrate for the 744 was from the NWA CBA dated 22Nov2004. The total rate, inclusive of the MPPP was $273.15. I adjusted it for the MPPP number from Section 1.L.2 to get the actual cash pay rate of $264.96 + the 3% MPPP.
L. Retirement Savings Plan Contributions
L.1. The Company shall make employer contributions to the Retirement Savings Plan under Section 3.5.1. of said plan at a rate of 3% of Recognized Compensation (as defined in the Retirement Savings Plan).
L.2. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in the collective bargaining agreement, the compensation of each pilot who is a Participant in the Retirement Savings Plan shall be reduced semimonthly in such a manner so as to offset, dollar for dollar, the amount contributed by the Company to said pilot’s Employer Contribution Account as an employer contribution.
It's still not enough.
09-01-2013, 09:17 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
In other news, it is becoming too contaminated at Fukishima to safely work there. Yet, somebody must work there to prevent several disasters from occurring, disasters which could happen anyway. Some scientists have been stating all along that Tokyo should have been evacuated. The primary consideration of the Japanese government, then and now, is preventing the failure of the government. They determined an evacuation of Tokyo would result in collapse of Japanese civil order.
Long story short, both Narita and Haneda may be a place no one wants to go to, or worse, inside an exclusion zone. Someone will eventually want the numbers on inflight risks over the Pacific. I sure hope this does not get very, very, ugly for us.
Long story short, both Narita and Haneda may be a place no one wants to go to, or worse, inside an exclusion zone. Someone will eventually want the numbers on inflight risks over the Pacific. I sure hope this does not get very, very, ugly for us.
09-01-2013, 09:32 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
Scoop and Jay5150,
First of all I'm sorry you guys ended up getting furloughed, it sucked.
Here is how I remember it. Yes guys were flying green slips while you were out on furlough. I don't think they should have been doing it. Unfortunately there is that pesky "status quo" thingy with the NMB and we had the 49ers to prove that Delta would come after the Union and individuals in court to enforce this. I think there is at least one of them that frequents this forum. He could tell you more.
That being said, I pretty sure the price of a green slip from 2X to 1.5X and the "Furlough Protection Letter" were a result of the side letter of agreement (46 I think) that took effect in Nov. 2004 to try to avoid bankruptcy. At the time I thought it was essentially a new contract. The "Furlough Protection Letter" was a casualty of the Bankruptcy process. One thing I would like to know, if we have/had such great lawyers, why didn't they know the "Furlough Protection Letter" wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
The following is not aimed at you guys, it's just my feelings. This is all behind us and I choose to look forward rather than dwell in the past. I know that "those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it." I'm all for trying to correct the inequities of the contract and hopefully we will. I am very optimistic about the future of our Company and what we should be able to negotiate in our next contract.
And like someone else said, I'm very thankful that, after 25 years, I STILL ENJOY GOING TO WORK! (Granted, we would all like to be independently wealthy and not have to work!) I know most all, if not all, of you out there in APC Land can say the same thing. That's a testament to this pilot group. Truthfully, how many people in other industries can honestly say that they enjoy going to work?
I'll get off the soapbox now. Move along, nothing to see here.....
Denny
First of all I'm sorry you guys ended up getting furloughed, it sucked.
Here is how I remember it. Yes guys were flying green slips while you were out on furlough. I don't think they should have been doing it. Unfortunately there is that pesky "status quo" thingy with the NMB and we had the 49ers to prove that Delta would come after the Union and individuals in court to enforce this. I think there is at least one of them that frequents this forum. He could tell you more.
That being said, I pretty sure the price of a green slip from 2X to 1.5X and the "Furlough Protection Letter" were a result of the side letter of agreement (46 I think) that took effect in Nov. 2004 to try to avoid bankruptcy. At the time I thought it was essentially a new contract. The "Furlough Protection Letter" was a casualty of the Bankruptcy process. One thing I would like to know, if we have/had such great lawyers, why didn't they know the "Furlough Protection Letter" wasn't worth the paper it was written on.
The following is not aimed at you guys, it's just my feelings. This is all behind us and I choose to look forward rather than dwell in the past. I know that "those who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it." I'm all for trying to correct the inequities of the contract and hopefully we will. I am very optimistic about the future of our Company and what we should be able to negotiate in our next contract.
And like someone else said, I'm very thankful that, after 25 years, I STILL ENJOY GOING TO WORK! (Granted, we would all like to be independently wealthy and not have to work!) I know most all, if not all, of you out there in APC Land can say the same thing. That's a testament to this pilot group. Truthfully, how many people in other industries can honestly say that they enjoy going to work?
I'll get off the soapbox now. Move along, nothing to see here.....
Denny
I agree with Bar, it would be better to fix ALPA from within. That just doesn't seem possible when you can take communications from the union, white out any references to DALPA/ALPA and it would read just like it was coming from management. I have seen no signs of that changing.
09-01-2013, 09:55 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 2,039
Here are a couple of my concerns. We have had record profits now for a couple of years. We all know that record profits can not continue forever. There will be a "nice" downturn eventually. When? I dont know. But we need to capitalize on these up-turns.
1) We should have returned to restoration or close to it, while we were starting this record profit trajectory around C2012. In other words, I think "next" time (18 mos) the company's profit steam will start fading and in reality there would be little or no money on the table for the gains we want. I have already been told by a rep to expect a sustainable pay raise next time (set up for non-restoration).
We all know that what goes up, must eventually come down. Think about it. I hope I am wrong but we should have aimed to get a lot more in 2012. When profitability slides, the company will come and ask for concessions that will be far more expensive than our measly 19.7% in 3 years (COMPOUNDED).
2) The JV 3 year compliance-window is bogus too. In 3 years many things can happen that will favor the company. We need to have a 3 month window to get the company back on track. 3 years is a holiday for the company. I can see RA exploit this 3 years with a nice glass of Louis and cigar. Who are we kidding. 3 years??? Dont get it.
TEN
1) We should have returned to restoration or close to it, while we were starting this record profit trajectory around C2012. In other words, I think "next" time (18 mos) the company's profit steam will start fading and in reality there would be little or no money on the table for the gains we want. I have already been told by a rep to expect a sustainable pay raise next time (set up for non-restoration).
We all know that what goes up, must eventually come down. Think about it. I hope I am wrong but we should have aimed to get a lot more in 2012. When profitability slides, the company will come and ask for concessions that will be far more expensive than our measly 19.7% in 3 years (COMPOUNDED).
2) The JV 3 year compliance-window is bogus too. In 3 years many things can happen that will favor the company. We need to have a 3 month window to get the company back on track. 3 years is a holiday for the company. I can see RA exploit this 3 years with a nice glass of Louis and cigar. Who are we kidding. 3 years??? Dont get it.
TEN
09-01-2013, 10:13 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: Top
Posts: 472
Gents, I have a question for you as I contemplate which plane to bid when I return from mil leave: which airport is easiest to drive to from Rhode Island? When I mapquest EWR, LGA, & JFK, they all come out roughly the same. In practice, that can't be right.
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