Originally Posted by Vikz09 (Post 1660504)

I am behind my union but I must admit I get angered every time they try and say there is no way management will allow our pilot costs to exceed our competitors.

A) how the hell do you know? I mean if that is coming from their mouth we have volumes of articles to rebuttal that position.

Richard has said countless times how we our ahead of our competitors. The union should immediately say this means we should also be receiving pay that out performs our competitors as we have been making more money in these year's then our foes. I could find a hundred articles where Richard or Ed say we're the best, whether it's operational, irop recovery, contract flexibility, etc. The union needs to drop the file on the negotiating table and say "these are your words, now compensate us accordingly." Otherwise these articles are meaningless and the rest of the aviation employees and the world need to know that you disingenuous and from hear on, your words are just that, meaningless lip service!

The company has provided us with all the Ammo needed to have the richest contract in aviation.

Originally Posted by DLpilot (Post 1660336)

I have been trying to get one since Thursday. Too many guys are getting white slips.

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1660543)

So, I'm pretty sure United has our same pay rates, just a year behind. And now American seems to be connected to the average of Delta and United.

I've got buddies at UAL and they are telling me that their company is even blaming them for their loss last quarter. I don't think they have much of a chance of negotiating a industry leading contract. Or, if we wait for them, we will be waiting for a long, long time.

So, from what I see then, everyone is connected to us. We have to lead the way. Right?

Originally Posted by BigGuns (Post 1660533)

LA doesn't even know what hockey is, let alone " The Cup"!

Chicago Tribune

Game 7, Kings vs Blackhaws, had over 800,000 homes in Chicago and not even 1/5 for the same game in LA! Pathetic!

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1660544)

Recycled this one from the past. All numbers directly from the USAirways merger transition agreement. So, as you can see, they have already raised the bar.

Side note. Those that say we don't have leverage. You are not correct. We need unity. Once we have unity we have all the leverage we need.

Don't think so? Just wander over to the Cargo forum and read about the drafts happening now and the resulting service failures at FedEx.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Imapilot2
Will they ever be a help though? one of my American jumpseaters said their contract will look at us and united for what work we have done and they will get that average. they will never set the bar and do the footwork to raise it in the future, they will only ride the coattails of our work. not sure about the truth to that...just repeating his words.




Here is the truth.

Read below to see how they eventually top Delta by $40 per hour in the 767-400, a330 etc.

THE USAIRWAYS MERGER TRANSITION AGREEMENT

Effective on the the date of P.O.R. Which is 12/9/13.

First, some work rules.

This agreement provides for a 1:2 for sit times in excess of two hours.

Distance learning: 50% of hourly rate.
Training: 4:00 per day. (Delta 3:45)

Defined contribution: Currently 14%
January 2014: 16%
Delta: 15%

Sick:
5 hours accrued per month
60 short term banked
940 long terms bank
1000 total and with rollover.
Allowed to sell back.

Rapid re-accrual of 7.5 hrs if out more than 30 days
United has 7hrs
Delta no rapid re-accrual, no rollover, no sell back and capped at 270 max.

Home basing in cities that support it.

COMPENSATION: All 12 year rates. 777 rates reflect group 4 which include 777, 767-4, 787, 340.

Next week on POR, the first raise.
A320 capt. 167.68. F/O 114.02
B777 capt. 213.02. F/O 144.00

January 2014. 8% increase.

A320 capt. 181.00. F/O 123.14
B777 capt. 230.06. F/O 156.44

January 2015. 3% increase.

A320 capt. 186.53. F/O 236.06
B777 capt. 236.00. F/O 161.00

January 2016. 16.5% increase.

A320 capt. 217.24. F/O 147.72
B777 capt. 275.98. F/O 187.67

If needed, on January 2017 a 3.5% increase. On January 2018, a 3.5% increase.

Why if needed you might ask? Here is the rest of the story.

From the MTA:

"MTA provides parity review that compares DAL and UAL as of January 1, 2016. The parity review will use the average of the DAL and UAL pay rates of the A320 and the 737-800 aircraft weighted for the ASM's flown by each airline."

The other groups will be adjusted from there.

Now, when the APA (USAPA will be offered a seat at the table along with the west pilots) negotiates their JCBA, these numbers can change. Likely up, not expecting down.

Other considerations. AMR pilots getting near $100k each from their portion of the company on exit/merger. Frozen DB plans.


Overall, the APA did well. If we are still in section six in 2017-18, they top us by $40 per on the 330/767-4.

That was a pretty nice bar they set.

Personally, I'd never complain about the 4 hour penalty lap in Atlanta if we had their 1:2 after a two hour sit.


The extra cabbage they get in the 401k be nice too.


http://www.rpaycompany.com/wp-conten...-bar.png?w=300

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1660573)

Well, apparently it's up to us to raise the bar. :D

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1660544)

Recycled this one from the past. All numbers directly from the USAirways merger transition agreement. So, as you can see, they have already raised the bar.

Side note. Those that say we don't have leverage. You are not correct. We need unity. Once we have unity we have all the leverage we need.

Don't think so? Just wander over to the Cargo forum and read about the drafts happening now and the resulting service failures at FedEx.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Imapilot2
Will they ever be a help though? one of my American jumpseaters said their contract will look at us and united for what work we have done and they will get that average. they will never set the bar and do the footwork to raise it in the future, they will only ride the coattails of our work. not sure about the truth to that...just repeating his words.




Here is the truth.

Read below to see how they eventually top Delta by $40 per hour in the 767-400, a330 etc.

THE USAIRWAYS MERGER TRANSITION AGREEMENT

Effective on the the date of P.O.R. Which is 12/9/13.

First, some work rules.

This agreement provides for a 1:2 for sit times in excess of two hours.

Distance learning: 50% of hourly rate.
Training: 4:00 per day. (Delta 3:45)

Defined contribution: Currently 14%
January 2014: 16%
Delta: 15%

Sick:
5 hours accrued per month
60 short term banked
940 long terms bank
1000 total and with rollover.
Allowed to sell back.

Rapid re-accrual of 7.5 hrs if out more than 30 days
United has 7hrs
Delta no rapid re-accrual, no rollover, no sell back and capped at 270 max.

Home basing in cities that support it.

COMPENSATION: All 12 year rates. 777 rates reflect group 4 which include 777, 767-4, 787, 340.

Next week on POR, the first raise.
A320 capt. 167.68. F/O 114.02
B777 capt. 213.02. F/O 144.00

January 2014. 8% increase.

A320 capt. 181.00. F/O 123.14
B777 capt. 230.06. F/O 156.44

January 2015. 3% increase.

A320 capt. 186.53. F/O 236.06
B777 capt. 236.00. F/O 161.00

January 2016. 16.5% increase.

A320 capt. 217.24. F/O 147.72
B777 capt. 275.98. F/O 187.67

If needed, on January 2017 a 3.5% increase. On January 2018, a 3.5% increase.

Why if needed you might ask? Here is the rest of the story.

From the MTA:

"MTA provides parity review that compares DAL and UAL as of January 1, 2016. The parity review will use the average of the DAL and UAL pay rates of the A320 and the 737-800 aircraft weighted for the ASM's flown by each airline."

The other groups will be adjusted from there.

Now, when the APA (USAPA will be offered a seat at the table along with the west pilots) negotiates their JCBA, these numbers can change. Likely up, not expecting down.

Other considerations. AMR pilots getting near $100k each from their portion of the company on exit/merger. Frozen DB plans.


Overall, the APA did well. If we are still in section six in 2017-18, they top us by $40 per on the 330/767-4.

That was a pretty nice bar they set.

Personally, I'd never complain about the 4 hour penalty lap in Atlanta if we had their 1:2 after a two hour sit.


The extra cabbage they get in the 401k be nice too.


http://www.rpaycompany.com/wp-conten...-bar.png?w=300

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1660584)

You need to go back and read the Delta rates. I have no idea where you get the 40 an hour. In 2015 the last rates in our contract and theirs. (2016 rates based on parity review) is about the only place you can find 40 an hour difference in our favor. Their parity review estimated rates include possible raises for us in 16. Might also be a good idea to compare the two biggest aircraft numbers in each fleet. 737, Md88, 757.
By the way if their contract was so good what does that make ours?