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Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1663753)
Exposed for what? Trying to insure we get the best contract possible?The only way to do that is be smart, reasonable and understand the system we have to negotiate within. DALPA has done that remarkably well and taken us from a airline on the edge of collapse back to the top of the industry. Results are what counts!
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Originally Posted by index
(Post 1663770)
So sailing, self-proclaimed champion and protector of furloughed pilots, are you going to share the details of your story about how your robust advocacy resulted in you being PERSONALLY THREATENED BY THE CEO OF DELTA? After all, YOU brought it up.
I think it highly unlikely that the CEO would GAS about anything you, me, or anyone else thinks. I assume when you say "stand" that you mean your position on the matter, and not that you took some kind of "action." Whatever the case, let's hear the details. Again, what specifically did he say to you? Or were any words used at all? Did he give you the evil eye? Wink at you? Cast a hex on you? Let's see the letter sailing that you profess required "guts" to sign. Sadly the letters were long ago and not saved. The furlough issue was simple. I wrote a letter to RA stating that the furloughs were political at the time and game changing in history of Delta Airlines. I further added that toying with people's lives was a new low at Delta. I finished by stating I advocated taking the demanded 5% paycut and having the union use it to pay the furloughed pilots. I got to have a personal chat with the CEO. I had also followed that up with a similar letter to the VP of flight ops which got me a personal call at my reserve squadron and another invite to Atlanta. The last time I wrote a letter stating the rest seat change on the ER was a clear statement by Delta they were willing to trade revenue for safety. Another Atlanta invite. |
Originally Posted by gzsg
(Post 1663769)
Sailing
What does the final product C2015 end up being in your book? I will go first. When management is returning billions to the shareholders and making record profits, making any concessions is insane. Date of signing May 2004 Delta hourly rates plus 3%. 5% per year after that. 3 year duration. Per diem $2.95/$3.95 plus .10 per year 44 days of vacation UAL match Air tight Improved JV language with rapid and severe penalties. $4000 annual company contribution to medical savings account. 4:30 vacation day and training day. Restoration of C2012 profit sharing reduction. I admit this is not "historic" but this is the very minimum. I would love all that. Now give me a sound solid method to achieve it. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1663778)
Sadly the letters were long ago and not saved. The furlough issue was simple. I wrote a letter to RA stating that the furloughs were political at the time and game changing in history of Delta Airlines. I further added that toying with people's lives was a new low at Delta. I finished by stating I advocated taking the demanded 5% paycut and having the union use it to pay the furloughed pilots.
I got to have a personal chat with the CEO. I had also followed that up with a similar letter to the VP of flight ops which got me a personal call at my reserve squadron and another invite to Atlanta. The last time I wrote a letter stating the rest seat change on the ER was a clear statement by Delta they were willing to trade revenue for safety. Another Atlanta invite. T |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1663780)
I would love all that. Now give me a sound solid method to achieve it.
2) Develop a consensus on what the share of revenue needs to be, considering the fact that Delta is running out of places to hide money (extra retirement funding, extra debt repayments, superfluous stock buy-backs, dividends, shifting margin targets from 8-10%, now to 15%, etc.), for the Delta pilots, considering our sacrifices, and our ongoing contributions. Divorce all such calculations from a) some over-romanticized past contract at a company that actually no longer exists, and b) from all the fearful, tearful arguments that anything we ask for is too much. Make a credible, sound argument for a reasonable number that will allow the company to make respectable margins, while we bring home the share of the bacon our family deserves. This share may be more, less, or the same that some contract or other, but the point is that we benchmark against what is rightfully ours, without failing to also reward other constituencies in a balanced manner. 3) Hold out for the number in 2, above, and negotiate. 4) Determine through surveys how the pilot group wants the number in 2, above, to be distributed. 5) Continue to hold out for the number in 2, above. 6) Change strategies and tactics as needed, until we achieve the number in 2, above. 7) Once we attain the number in 2, above (not the moon and the stars, not a pitiful fear-induced number), ratify a TA, and move forward. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1663778)
Sadly the letters were long ago and not saved. The furlough issue was simple. I wrote a letter to RA stating that the furloughs were political at the time and game changing in history of Delta Airlines. I further added that toying with people's lives was a new low at Delta. I finished by stating I advocated taking the demanded 5% paycut and having the union use it to pay the furloughed pilots. I got to have a personal chat with the CEO.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1663778)
I had also followed that up with a similar letter to the VP of flight ops which got me a personal call at my reserve squadron and another invite to Atlanta.
The last time I wrote a letter stating the rest seat change on the ER was a clear statement by Delta they were willing to trade revenue for safety. Another Atlanta invite. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1663753)
Exposed for what? Trying to insure we get the best contract possible?The only way to do that is be smart, reasonable and understand the system we have to negotiate within. DALPA has done that remarkably well and taken us from a airline on the edge of collapse back to the top of the industry. Results are what counts!
It's not normally a horrible offense. But, when you do it to minimize the hard work your pilot group and your fellow employees have done over the years to help make Delta the profitable & successful airline that it is today, it comes off pretty bad. |
Originally Posted by Sink r8
(Post 1663793)
1) Marginalize extreme positions. Take out the people that don't care about sound and solid methods, or realistic expectations, but sit there and make demands with no clear foundation, or some emotional basis that no longer applies. Also take out the people that, instead of helping develop sound, solid methods, keep insinuating there is no sound, solid method for achieving anything, and just sit there, postulating on the negatives.
2) Develop a consensus on what the share of revenue needs to be, considering the fact that Delta is running out of places to hide money (extra retirement funding, extra debt repayments, superfluous stock buy-backs, dividends, shifting margin targets from 8-10%, now to 15%, etc.), for the Delta pilots, considering our sacrifices, and our ongoing contributions. Divorce all such calculations from a) some over-romanticized past contract at a company that actually no longer exists, and b) from all the fearful, tearful arguments that anything we ask for is too much. Make a credible, sound argument for a reasonable number that will allow the company to make respectable margins, while we bring home the share of the bacon our family deserves. This share may be more, less, or the same that some contract or other, but the point is that we benchmark against what is rightfully ours, without failing to also reward other constituencies in a balanced manner. 3) Hold out for the number in 2, above, and negotiate. 4) Determine through surveys how the pilot group wants the number in 2, above, to be distributed. 5) Continue to hold out for the number in 2, above. 6) Change strategies and tactics as needed, until we achieve the number in 2, above. 7) Once we attain the number in 2, above (not the moon and the stars, not a pitiful fear-induced number), ratify a TA, and move forward. |
What are people's thoughts on including a 3% per year raise as a tag on at the end of the contract. Just in case it does take 5 years to hash out a new agreement, maybe we wouldn't feel pressure to take a substandard (or not as good as the group wanted) deal.
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When is purpledrank gonna answer his follow up question?
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