Its a Mig 28. Saw a documentary on it once.

Just one?

http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slides...88717_free.jpg

That's an EASY yes from me.

Baja.

Ummmm. What about the rest of the pilots from ALPA carriers then if you don't think American matters.

I have plenty of respect for the American pilots and their ability to secure a fantastic bankruptcy pay and benefits package. Frozen pension. That would have been nice.

Then to move quickly after that and leverage their MTA and score a contract that leaves our A330 pilots paid $40 per seat less than their equivalent pilots is certainly respect worthy in my book.

Get used to this fact. Our contract is not the gold standard.

And for your complaints about being too melodramatic? Really! Is is a WEB board. Not a union meeting with Richard Anderson in the room as a guest speaker. We post under boob here. We try and have some fun too. No long sleeve, starched shirts allowed. Thin skin is not desirable either.

However, regarding the prison domination theme. DALPA and ALPA hang their strategy squarely on pattern bargaining. For years they have squealed shrilly about how USAirways was holding everyone down.

How many times have we heard, "it's USAPAs fault!"

Well. Not anymore. Time to man up and actually perform. To perform by their definition, we need 17%

Pretty simple. Our we will look like the go to beotches that like to hang out and linger longer in the shower room.

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/7d/7dab59...658cfcd9db.jpg

Do I care what they think of us? No I don't. Results are all that matter. It is business. And we have out performed them for years. I think 17% would be awesome, but it matters not to me whether or not they LIKE it.

Now you have the same question to answer as PD. Whose contract, in it's entirety, would you rather have than ours?

USAPA has done nothing to raise any bar. Nothing. Had it not been for Dougie Parker's world domination aspirations, they would still be languishing in pathetic mediocrity. The funny thing is that they did it all to themselves. Dougie sat back and watched them shoot inside the circle. And do you seriously believe that APA would have gotten that contract had it not been for ours? C'mon man, most of the time you seem fairly rational and business like, but you are giving them waaaaaaay too much credit. They sat back with arms folded and hoped for a miracle for a long time... and it cost them in career earnings... a LOT. And as far as the DB plan.. no thanks. not again... ever.

Could you post some numbers. Their contract stinks and is below ours in every rate. They only got what they have as a result of our contract. 40.00 an hour more then our 330 rate??

What about scope beyond the JV though? There are way too many DC-9-10's flying around at DCI and the AS carve out is way too generous. Both need to be tightened up.

Oh, and when the company (and possibly some of our own guys) attempt to sell some Bravo Sierra junk about "hundred seaters" at DCI in exchange for fewer smaller RJ's they don't want or can't staff anyway, well…

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...kecmnbhgif.gif

I don't think even the most ardent kool aid drinker would go for that, so Ill betcha it is pretty much a non starter.

I agree we probably won't see that in an official opener or TA. However I'm sure the company will float it, and it could be considered by some. We were even told in the runup to C2012 that the company tried to get 86 (or something like that) seat "RJ's" but we said no. But it was put out there anyway. To me that kind of negotiating tactic should be smacked down immediately and not even considered a part of negotiations. It would be like us opening for $1000/hr. They would laugh and line item veto it without a second thought. I hope we do the same.

You are correct. USAPA did not one thing. They continue to this day filling lawsuits trying to stop their merger integration.

APA. Did they find themselves in a fortunate situation. Yes. Did they leverage it. Yes.

Was it all attributed to our contract. No.

I think other contracts had just as much or more to do with their final product.

Simple illustrative point. fNWA have frozen pensions. fDAL do not.

APA preserved a much better portion of their retirement and has better contributions going forward.

I'm not lobbying for a DB plan again either. ALPA screwed that one up by not putting it in our own names in C2K. It was effectively gone then.

Pattern bargain works by examining all the competing contracts out there and patterning above the sections you desire to target. Asking if you'd take their contract as a whole is not an intellectually sound rebuttal nor argument.

Yes. They are BETTER than us in certain areas of their contract.

We should recognize that, accept the fact, plan to pattern bargain above to our benefit.

It's not a difficult concept.