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Originally Posted by iceman49
(Post 1664011)
What is your definition of success? Do we know if a furlough would have taken place without it? Or that training costs would have been more than early out, or perhaps we all would have fallen more in seniority.
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Originally Posted by TheManager
(Post 1663931)
You are correct. USAPA did not one thing. They continue to this day filling lawsuits trying to stop their merger integration.
APA. Did they find themselves in a fortunate situation. Yes. Did they leverage it. Yes. Was it all attributed to our contract. No. I think other contracts had just as much or more to do with their final product. Simple illustrative point. fNWA have frozen pensions. fDAL do not. APA preserved a much better portion of their retirement and has better contributions going forward. I'm not lobbying for a DB plan again either. ALPA screwed that one up by not putting it in our own names in C2K. It was effectively gone then. Pattern bargain works by examining all the competing contracts out there and patterning above the sections you desire to target. Asking if you'd take their contract as a whole is not an intellectually sound rebuttal nor argument. Yes. They are BETTER than us in certain areas of their contract. We should recognize that, accept the fact, plan to pattern bargain above to our benefit. It's not a difficult concept. |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1663871)
rotflmao. like that will be an incentive for anybody to leave early...... funny funny stuff.
I'll tell you this much. I am not willing to spend on red cent for any kind of early out program. We have seen enough of THAT crap to know that they don't work. |
Originally Posted by TheManager
(Post 1663939)
We covered this four days ago.
16.5% pay raise on 1/16. 3.5% each year after if needed. Why if needed? They have negotiated a composite of Delta and UAL pay. They will be paid the middle of the three carriers. So, you said yourself sailing that you thought it could be a three year negotiation. If so, they automatically top our a330 and 764 pilots by 40 an hour. Pretty simple. They banded their group four aircraft to the 777. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1664033)
Never said a word about spending a dime on it. If we can get it free worth asking for. Might get 50 guys to go early.
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1663104)
I have never had a management position at the airline or DALPA. The closest I have been to management was having the CEO of Delta personally threatening my job over my stand on furloughing pilots.
When you were called in on the carpet, what specifically did he say to you that made you feel threatened? The mere fact that you spoke to him? Did he chest bump you like they do in union meetings? I just don't believe that a CEO---even moRON--would be so bold as to threaten to terminate you over you signing some silly letter. I've asked you repeatedly to provide details over exactly what was said, but you continue to refuse to provide any detail. To me, that suggests you are blowing smoke. |
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1664043)
sailing--you've also not said a word about how the CEO personally threatened your job. You're the one who brought this up, now you want to pretend like it was never said.
When you were called in on the carpet, what specifically did he say to you that made you feel threatened? The mere fact that you spoke to him? Did he chest bump you like they do in union meetings? I just don't believe that a CEO---even moRON--would be so bold as to threaten to terminate you over you signing some silly letter. I've asked you repeatedly to provide details over exactly what was said, but you continue to refuse to provide any detail. To me, that suggests you are blowing smoke. |
Originally Posted by TheManager
(Post 1663939)
16.5% pay raise on 1/16.
3.5% each year after if needed. So, you said yourself sailing that you thought it could be a three year negotiation. If so, they automatically top our a330 and 764 pilots by 40 an hour. Even though its averaging and some of it is possibly based off of assumptions of us getting some kind of raise by then, I think that's a pretty fair assumption. I still don't believe RA wants to give us the farm just to drive up the average though, as a few have floated. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1664063)
I am not going to post the discussion on a public forum.
If you didn't want to discuss it, why did you even bring it up? Assuming you were talking about moRON, he's no longer here. What are you afraid of sailing? Is someone still "out to get ya"? If what you allege is true, you're story could be very enlightening. |
Originally Posted by TheManager
(Post 1663884)
How about more 401k money.
Originally Posted by TheManager
(Post 1663884)
We currently lag.
We need 17%. American/US Airways now gets 16% and in light of pattern bargaining and it's definition, we need 17% or we will be seen as the prison bitcche$ that actually like to give it up without a fight. IIRC, United has 17% DC in their contract. To effectively pattern bargain, we need 18%+.
Originally Posted by gloopy
(Post 1663926)
I agree we probably won't see that in an official opener or TA. However I'm sure the company will float it, and it could be considered by some. We were even told in the runup to C2012 that the company tried to get 86 (or something like that) seat "RJ's" but we said no. But it was put out there anyway. To me that kind of negotiating tactic should be smacked down immediately and not even considered a part of negotiations. It would be like us opening for $1000/hr. They would laugh and line item veto it without a second thought. I hope we do the same.
Management wanted 82-seat aircraft during C2012 negotiations.
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1664074)
In case you've already forgotten, YOU were the one who posted the statement that your job was personally threatened by the CEO of Delta ON THIS PUBLIC FORUM!!!
If you didn't want to discuss it, why did you even bring it up? Assuming you were talking about moRON, he's no longer here. What are you afraid of sailing? Is someone still "out to get ya"? If what you allege is true, you're story could be very enlightening. Let it go already. Are you as incessant of a little beach like this at home, or just at work? :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by index
(Post 1664074)
In case you've already forgotten, YOU were the one who posted the statement that your job was personally threatened by the CEO of Delta ON THIS PUBLIC FORUM!!!
If you didn't want to discuss it, why did you even bring it up? Assuming you were talking about moRON, he's no longer here. What are you afraid of sailing? Is someone still "out to get ya"? If what you allege is true, you're story could be very enlightening. He should have kept it to himself to begin with. |
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