We need the jobs not a 3% raise. And the last thing we should agree to is another 3 year blank check. They willingly, knowingly, flagrantly violated their own agreement and their own "rules of the road" by not honoring their deals. They just committed a huge act of bad faith, during the "cure period" they had no intention of ever honoring. That can't be rewarded with a 1 year COLA and another 3 year blank check.

Were you worse off in 2007 than you were in 2001? The failed policies of central planning and trillion dollar stimulus fake economics he and his party are barfing into this economy will be devistating when they correct. Even during the upswing unemployment, underemployment and real GDP (not including government debt spending) are horrendous.

+1

LBP=more stagnation and less jobs = huge concession! I'm all for movement which the company is obviously very opposed. Every move since our merger has limited true progression either from increased production requiring less pilots or JV agreements sacrificing premium flying, requiring less pilots. The reason this LBP keeps coming up is it's next on the agenda! The company is after one thing….fewer of us as possible!! I expect to hear the drum beat of benefits of LBP very soon from our very own association.

I encourage all to shoot this down just like the CDOs. It will come in charts and fancy stats etc…But it's arrival will mean more of the same, stagnation and less jobs overall.

T will argue the company will buy whatever they want regardless of pilot pay. I don't think the billions of RJs purchased support your claim. Our pay structure is not a small factor in what they purchase.

This is exactly why we pilots get rolled continuously in negotiations. You believe this because you've been told to believe it. You haven't a clue on the truth of this, yet you parrot it because your management sources tell you to.

See above. You have no clue of the truth of this speculation.

Nonsense. Both Delta and NWA did so for years without these JV's. The JV's have done nothing but shrink the need for Delta pilots...which is exactly why management wants them. But in order to get pilots to buy off on reducing their own jobs, you need pilots to parrot what you've just said.

I don't know when we're ever going to open our eyes.

Carl

I guess virtually every airline management team and all the analysts are wrong.

I think a lot of people that want to transition to LBP somehow think it will be a raise (at least for them). Usually the scheme includes a dramatic increase in the pay steps (perhaps unlimited). That only serves to back load compensation which is the last thing we need to be doing. Most LPB schemes also neglect the reality of bigger pays more and think it will decouple us from that. But it will still be there because that "one rate to rule them all" has to come from somewhere.

Once locked in, then it gets more interesting. If we have one rate and the company wants to replace 50 A330's with 20 A380's (pretty much all we're flying across the pond anyway is high frequency to "partner" hubs anyway) then they cut lots of jobs and no one makes more. Meanwhile its a huge disincentive on bottom end scope. The cost of 88 717's goes way up if they all pay ER or greater pay in today's pay table.

I see further banding happening (50 cents to a dollar extra for 737-900? Really?) Not to mention the unreasonable difference between M88/90 and A319/320.

Then there is the relative integration poison pill. There are several examples of our pilot group getting absolutely slaughtered with a relative integration (Hawaiian, JB, VX, etc) even if it was status only relative. Imagine a full relative. No thanks.

Again, you're doing nothing but parroting what you've been told to believe by senior management attending your Line Check Airman meetings. Why do you think they attend tsquare? Do you think they attend because they're interested in line pilot training?

See above. You do damage to our profession when you just parrot without thinking.

See above.

Carl

Its a two sided argument though. DL needs AF/KLM as bad as AF/KLM needs DL. It baffles me that we allow them to walk all over us like they are the alpha. And it blows my mind the crap we take from KA, which DL singlehandedly saved from oblivion. Even AS was the boss of the relationship until they finally took it way too far and overplayed their hand. But man did that take a while and a LOT of abuse. One quick look at the billions in overordered RJ's and it doesn't take long to see that DL pilots are the absolute last resort to fly DL pax in the DL network by DL management. DL pilots only fly what we have to by contract with very few exceptions. The staffing issues at the regionals and AS overplaying its hand appear to be bright spots for DL pilots, but both those things could flip 180 and if we don't lock our progress down in those areas we will regret it down the road.

I guess we won't know how it will turn out, but this economy reminds me of that commercial with that guy riding the lawnmower who says "I have the big house, the pool, 2 new cars. How do it do it? I am in debt up to me ears."

It does no such thing. It would not in any way prevent Delta from the commerece in which they choose to engage. It would only require them to use Delta pilots, and that's what Delta management cannot tolerate. They need to spread the labor risk around. JV's allow them to do that. It helps them keep the promise to shareholders that labor risk has been taken completely off the table at Delta.

That would be Delta's decision...exactly as it is now.

It would be a grievance heard in front of an arbitrator...not negotiations. It wouldn't make a bit of difference what management would willingly give up. It's contract law and as of April 1, 2015 management will have not only violated the contract, but actively worked to make the violation worse during the contractual "cure period." Arbitrators do not take kindly to such flagrant violations of contract law.

That "something" would never have been agreed to without the balance of flying percentages as the bedrock principle. The company now wants to keep the JV without the bedrock principle. An arbitrator doesn't consider "grenading", only compliance and remedy. The remedy will be what we demand and the arbitrator agrees to. Management will have no role in deciding what their remedy will be once they've been found in violation. But we'd have to demand it, and this MEC Administration won't do that. They're completely owned by Delta management.

Carl