Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
09-04-2014 | 06:58 AM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
There were basically three groups of pilots that will receive money from the PBGC.
Group 1 was PC-3 which were pilots that were age 53 or older when the pension was terminated. All the money that was left in the pension plan went to them, along with pilots already retired. In general their PC-3 benefit was less than their full earned benefit but could be a significant amount well north of $5,000 a month. In addition, the PBGC had a recovery from Delta in the form of a bankruptcy claim that was converted to stock when Delta exited bankruptcy. That recovery was high enough that it kicked in PC-5 benefits that essentially filled in part of the gap between their PC-3 benefit and their full earned benefit.
Group 2 was PC-4 pilots that had earned retirement benefits greater than the PBGC maximum guarantee but were too young to fit into PC-3. These pilots are often referred to as deadzoners because they were too young to be PC-3 but old enough that they had less time to accumulate additional savings. I am a deadzoner. We get the PBGC guarantee but also receive the PC-5 benefit which fills in about half the loss between the guarantee and our full earned benefit. Many of us will receive more than $5,000 a month between PC-4 and PC-5 benefits. If we wait beyond age 60 to take benefits, then we get even more.
Group 3 was PC-4 pilots that had earned retirement benefits less than the PBGC maximum guarantee. They will just get their full earned benefit but it may not be a large amount of money. All three groups received part of their benefit as a lump sum rollover from our Money Purchase Pension Plan (MPPP). For many in the Group 3, that MPPP payout was the majority of their earned pension benefit, so they have that lump sum growing and their actual payment from the PBGC will be quite paltry.
When the Delta pilots got their $2.1 billion claim, the PBGC demanded a similar amount and got $2.2 billion claim. When that was monetized, there was enough money to pay those PC-5 benefits. That rarely occurs in pension terminations so it is not well understood by anyone. Certainly I didn't even know it existed until I got it.
That is an explanation about how many f-Dal pilots can get more, in some cases quite a bit more, than the PBGC insurance payments.
Group 1 was PC-3 which were pilots that were age 53 or older when the pension was terminated. All the money that was left in the pension plan went to them, along with pilots already retired. In general their PC-3 benefit was less than their full earned benefit but could be a significant amount well north of $5,000 a month. In addition, the PBGC had a recovery from Delta in the form of a bankruptcy claim that was converted to stock when Delta exited bankruptcy. That recovery was high enough that it kicked in PC-5 benefits that essentially filled in part of the gap between their PC-3 benefit and their full earned benefit.
Group 2 was PC-4 pilots that had earned retirement benefits greater than the PBGC maximum guarantee but were too young to fit into PC-3. These pilots are often referred to as deadzoners because they were too young to be PC-3 but old enough that they had less time to accumulate additional savings. I am a deadzoner. We get the PBGC guarantee but also receive the PC-5 benefit which fills in about half the loss between the guarantee and our full earned benefit. Many of us will receive more than $5,000 a month between PC-4 and PC-5 benefits. If we wait beyond age 60 to take benefits, then we get even more.
Group 3 was PC-4 pilots that had earned retirement benefits less than the PBGC maximum guarantee. They will just get their full earned benefit but it may not be a large amount of money. All three groups received part of their benefit as a lump sum rollover from our Money Purchase Pension Plan (MPPP). For many in the Group 3, that MPPP payout was the majority of their earned pension benefit, so they have that lump sum growing and their actual payment from the PBGC will be quite paltry.
When the Delta pilots got their $2.1 billion claim, the PBGC demanded a similar amount and got $2.2 billion claim. When that was monetized, there was enough money to pay those PC-5 benefits. That rarely occurs in pension terminations so it is not well understood by anyone. Certainly I didn't even know it existed until I got it.
That is an explanation about how many f-Dal pilots can get more, in some cases quite a bit more, than the PBGC insurance payments.
09-04-2014 | 06:59 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: A330 First Officer
Just finished the contract survey. It takes a long time and 250 characters really isn't enough to say what you really want to say. Funny how a lot of topics have already been discussed here. Pay banding, change to sick time accrual, SDP's (CDO's).
09-04-2014 | 07:10 AM
Works Every Weekend
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From: 737 ATL
09-04-2014 | 07:12 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
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The SLC council sent out an email warning us of the "concessionary" risks to some of the issues on the survey. Pay banding, sick time, PBS values, Out of base swaps, etc. So now we are being managed on how to fill out the survey.
09-04-2014 | 07:14 AM
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
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Why did they waste their time putting SDP's in the survey. Didn't they figure out we don't want them after the 117 deal? ALPA really wants to help the company out on this one don't they. Somehow I think we will see SDP's in C2015.
09-04-2014 | 07:18 AM
Gets Weekends Off
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The value of their recovery is fixed. I don't know the exact share price it was fixed at, but that was much closer to when we exited bankruptcy. What they did with the stock after that does not change their recovery. I don't know if they held onto the stock or liquidated it. Either way it won't affect our PC-5 benefits.
09-04-2014 | 07:30 AM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
09-04-2014 | 07:33 AM
At home on the maddog!
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
09-04-2014 | 07:33 AM
The Brown Dot +1
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From: 777B
09-04-2014 | 07:36 AM
At home on the maddog!
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From: Retired (mandatory age 65)
Yep. I think you're absolutely right. Someone else posted on here a while back that he had flown with SD and SD wanted them. And DALPA is apparently all too willing to go along with this. Fill out those surveys, folks. Just say NO to CDO's! Let your reps know there will be consequences (think recall) if they allow this to be in a deal.
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