Originally Posted by hockeypilot44 (Post 1866650)

I agree with you 100 percent here. Sorry for my earlier post. I directed my anger towards you. It should be directed at our union. That email really ****es me off. They talk as if we have to learn to say yes to concessions. They should be preaching to us that it's okay to delay our contract as the profit sharing alone will give us significant raises the next couple of years. We should be content just waiting. Our union should have put out a statement when the company first started verbally accusing us of calling in sick too much. Instead it seems our own union thinks we call in sick too much. Our union should be preaching it's okay to say no.

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1866661)

Here's your needle.




Well reports from "Men in the know" this is just a report back from the Negotiation Committee.. I guess the Company was actually surprised by what we were asking for.. So they are just reporting back the NOs and the He'll NOs

The pay rate ASK coming from the contract survey 23 percent over the life FWIW.. I don't think that even gets us back to 2004 rates.. They plan on selling this as you all are making more now then you did in 2004 with PS and by moving up in positions ...

PS the Co wants to change the Metrics of how it is figured no details provided...But it would only effect the larger threshold ...

The big hang ups are going to be my favorite topic SCOPE Relief for yet more JVs.. The CO wants more "Flexibility" to transfer flying to JV partners no surprise there.. And wants the whole AF/KLM grievance to just be reset and go away with no cash to you for the 5 years of Non-Compliance and stagnation as a result..

.Sick Time was brought up they want to reign that in Their proposal leave the 100 hours unchanged then the remainder would be "Managed" by a 3rd party with restrictions ...

But in exchange for those changes you would be able to use your "Sick Time" for the care of family members. Similar to MN CA and WA State law already allow and GA and NY are getting ready to change...

Pay Bsnding was brought up but the A350 was lumped into the A330 with still no crew rest area.....

Small changes to DC money 1-2 percent at the most ...Retirment Medical being discussed but not really much interest from the pilot group to push for this..

There was some talk of manatory Upgrades in base but sources said that proposal was DOA..FWIW....

Your input is important talk with your Reps We still have some Weak Links on the MEC if your based in CVG SLC or ATL you may want to submit your input as those bases seemed to have the weakest links...In the opinion of several good men...

Take it for what it's worth Call your Rep's your input does matter...

But IMO C2015 will falll well short of what some in our pilot are expecting out of it....

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1866661)

Here's your needle.




Well reports from "Men in the know" this is just a report back from the Negotiation Committee.. I guess the Company was actually surprised by what we were asking for.. So they are just reporting back the NOs and the He'll NOs

The pay rate ASK coming from the contract survey 23 percent over the life FWIW.. I don't think that even gets us back to 2004 rates.. They plan on selling this as you all are making more now then you did in 2004 with PS and by moving up in positions ...

PS the Co wants to change the Metrics of how it is figured no details provided...But it would only effect the larger threshold ...

The big hang ups are going to be my favorite topic SCOPE Relief for yet more JVs.. The CO wants more "Flexibility" to transfer flying to JV partners no surprise there.. And wants the whole AF/KLM grievance to just be reset and go away with no cash to you for the 5 years of Non-Compliance and stagnation as a result..

.Sick Time was brought up they want to reign that in Their proposal leave the 100 hours unchanged then the remainder would be "Managed" by a 3rd party with restrictions ...

But in exchange for those changes you would be able to use your "Sick Time" for the care of family members. Similar to MN CA and WA State law already allow and GA and NY are getting ready to change...

Pay Bsnding was brought up but the A350 was lumped into the A330 with still no crew rest area.....

Small changes to DC money 1-2 percent at the most ...Retirment Medical being discussed but not really much interest from the pilot group to push for this..

There was some talk of manatory Upgrades in base but sources said that proposal was DOA..FWIW....

Your input is important talk with your Reps We still have some Weak Links on the MEC if your based in CVG SLC or ATL you may want to submit your input as those bases seemed to have the weakest links...In the opinion of several good men...

Take it for what it's worth Call your Rep's your input does matter...

But IMO C2015 will falll well short of what some in our pilot are expecting out of it....

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1866704)

My jaw just about hit the floor when I read the "Update" put out by the MEC from their Special Meeting. The "develop the ability to say yes" piece.
It sounded like we've already surrendered and they are starting to prepare the pilots for the bad news. That was possibly the most horrible and demoralizing thing any union could have published at this point in a contract cycle.
But then I told myself, "Self. This can't be what it sounds like. Its way too early. They just need to fire the Communications guy. That can't be the real tone of the meeting."

Now this leak of the specifics they've been discussing at that meeting.

Oh no. C2012 deja vu.
4833 and all the other concessions started with a leak exactly like this.

This is bad. This is real bad.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank (Post 1866730)

To be fair, that same 10-point plan for epic failure was published by DALPA a few months ago too, and discussed on the C15 thread.

Originally Posted by NERD (Post 1866609)

Fwiw. Had a management pilot on the JS last week who insinuated("double top secret, can't tell details from recent pilot management meeting") that sick leave has to be dealt with(we use more than peers and is unsustainable), profit sharing is too much(for wall street) and should be monetized now(of course at a value management deems fair), etc. I get the vibe that there are some that have not only bought into ch11 was a permanent reset, but we are almost there again.

Originally Posted by Schwanker (Post 1866724)

I'm a NO VOTE no matter what the TA looks like. 63% will vote for mediocre. For my vote to even begin to make a difference, the TA would have to be absolutely horrific. Then hopefully, we would have enough NO VOTES to stop it.

Any deal that is not a grand slam needs to be stopped at the MEC level.