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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 734817)
Although I wish they'd let us fly the MD90s and see the west coast like once in a blue moon. That'd be nice too.
Oh, by the way, I'm SLC based on the 88/90. Many of our trips leave SLC the first day and head east and don't go back west until day four. Many, but not all :cool: |
Originally Posted by NuGuy
(Post 734823)
LOL, if ACL is going to NYCM88A, then so am I.
Man, that's a scary thought...commuting to NYC...<shiver> dang, when is that bid deadline again? Nu I did not say NYC....... |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 734722)
Well there are two issues here. First, is do I think we need to get contractual improvements, and the answer is yes. I think I pointed out in my posts that I consider it a given that we will increase our contractual costs in our next Section 6. The problem is that that increase will end up being some number of dollars and it will be fixed. That fixed amount will go to whatever the MEC (representing the pilots) deems are the priorities. If it is reserve then fine. As long as everyone knows the costs. There is a bucket of money to spread around and at some point the bucket runs out. If you use your bucket to increase reserve costs, there will be less left to increase pay, vacation or whatever and you can't pretend that is not true. It doesn't matter how much pay cuts you have taken, a finite amount of dollars is a finite amount, period.
The second issue is that in the short term, we have a contract with a defined cost structure going into the future. If we want to significantly increase the costs in one section of the contract, the company will demand some sort or trade to balance those costs OR they will have to eat the increased costs. Almost as soon as we exited bankruptcy, we have signed a series of agreements that have increased costs for the company, not significantly, but to a measurable amount. Most of these agreements gave the company some operational flexibility that could allow them increase revenue or decrease costs in some other way. For instance, we moved the equator 3 degrees south (that's a joke) so that 737's could go to Quito and in exchange we got 737-700 pay moved up to 737-800 pay. That was a trade. We obtained several other improvements along these lines. If we are going to get mid-contract improvements that are significant, then we will have to trade something in return, otherwise why would the company do it. Maybe if the JAL deal goes through, we can leverage our cooperation in a Joint Venture for some contract improvements. Maybe some other issue will arise that calls for a trade. Despite all of the cuts that have occurred (and I remind you that they all happened to me the same as you, I don't know, you might not have been around for all of them) the idea that you can walk in and demand mid-contract improvements just because we took cuts in the past is probably wishful thinking. Remember, after 9-11, the company started asking for contract relief in early 2002. The deal was completed in late 2004 and only when the company was on the courthouse steps getting ready to file Chapter 11. We took three pay raises in the meantime. It does work both ways. So the answer is yes I am quite upset that our contract has been hit hard by the collapse of the industry. Yes, I want more money. Yes, I think we deserve more money. But yes, I realize that every section of the contract is a trade in value against every other section. While I want our contract costs to go up, in the end it will be a FIXED NUMBER that can be spent on many different things, but not all things at once. This is a business and we have to realize that in business there is no such thing as cosmic justice. We have a record second to none in navigating through these hard times. In the last five years we have retained and added more value to our contract than any other pilot group facing similar circumstances. That is the mindset that the current ALPA leadership team has shown. You can't sit around and feel sorry for the past you keep having to work the future. I don't think we have gone more than six months at any time since bankruptcy exit where we haven't put more value into our contract. We created hundreds of millions of value out of this merger, something that has never been done before, something that was invented whole hog by the current Delta union leadership. Any normal person would recognize that accomplishment and realize that in a finite world with very real limits, we have pushed those limits harder than any other pilot group. Look at United, look at US Air and tell me what you see there. |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 734859)
Yes it is a fixed number, but as DALPA has demonstrated in the past many times... we ALWAYS negotiate from a middle stance. in case you don't believe that, please re-read the SLI transcripts. (No malice aimed at the NWA side on this) You, I nor Lee Moak knows what management's "fixed" number is, and I just hope that we don't (again) aim too low. :rolleyes: I'm done with this, and maybe after the New Year I will be done with dalpa and certainly these forums.
So you thought opening for 500 an hour on the 777 was a middle number? What did you have in mind for a high number? Here is a quote from the latest CAL table position to their pilots. "Often the story is not what in what is proposed but in what was not. Some may be disappointed that we are not proposing a 50% across the board pay increase. Others may not like that we did not tie our proposal to a cost of living index. There may be a feeling that we did not start high enough, giving ourselves room to negotiate to middle ground. While each of these was given serious consideration, it was determined with the help of our legal and financial advisors that starting with a arbitrarily high number would only serve to slow the process down and not change the end rates at all. We would still end up at the same place, we would just take years longer to get there. Due to the time value of money, that strategy would take money out of pilot's pockets, let management keep that money, and force pilots to live under a concessionary work rules and benefits (which do not have retro) for a longer period of time." |
Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 734722)
This is a business and we have to realize that in business there is no such thing as cosmic justice.
Best quote of the day. You can't sit around and feel sorry for the past you keep having to work the future. |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 734833)
ACL has been a CA before. Eight years in fact. I guess RJ's and Turboprops do not count though! :rolleyes:
I did not say NYC....... So do you think NYC went more senior, or will still be junior? |
Originally Posted by fishguy79
(Post 734894)
So do you think NYC went more senior, or will still be junior?
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Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 734833)
ACL has been a CA before. Eight years in fact. I guess RJ's and Turboprops do not count though! :rolleyes:
I'd wager to say that this qoute pretty much describes a large majority of FOs who have been hired in the last 10-12 years. |
I know everyone is saying SOC will be around midnight tomorrow. Here is another article from UPI pretty much confirming it.
10,000 tasks later, Delta merger complete ATLANTA, Dec. 29 (UPI) -- A U.S. Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman said a review of the merger between Delta and Northwest Airlines was ready for an official stamp of approval. The two air carriers have been merging operations for several months and expect to receive a single operating certificate before the end of the year, Cox Newspapers reported Tuesday. "It means there's one airline instead of two. Everything's merged from a safety standpoint," FAA spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen said. The regulatory review included a scrutiny of the merger from the point of view of safety, including operations, training, policies and paperwork. Merging operations took more than 10,000 steps and included merging 385 manuals. "We've had a lot of great work done by our operational teams," Delta's Chief Operating Officer Steve Gorman said recently. The "invisible curtain between the two certificates" ends Jan. 1, he said. |
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 734790)
SOC, unless last minute issues arise, will be effective at midnight on the 31st.
The documents are being finished up and we are good to go, so sayeth email from CF (head of line standards) today. Why are they making that the official time? Why is it any less advantageous to announce it today? Is it because this Thursday is going into a Holiday weekend? Would announcing now give our stock some needed boost before the week closes out? :confused: |
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