Around 180 guys were hired at NWA from June 07 through April 08, then the 2nd class in April 08 was cxd. Classes were filled through the summer, but that's a moot point.

Anyway, I was told that in the original joint PWA negotiations everyone would have the same formula to determine longevity. Then the two sides walked away from the table, and when the met again DAL would not give the same thing to us, so you have former NWA guys who receive their longevity raises 2+ months after starting class. If this isn't fixed before we hire, then we will still be earning less total income then a guy hired after us. Kinda screwed up, heh?

How do you figure that? By the time we hire all you guys will be on 3rd year pay. How will a new hire on 1st year pay make more than you?

I think he means total career income at DAL since we all will have to wait an extra 2 months every year for our annual increases and the rest of DAL does not.

We've plowed this ground before and Johnso, if you don't mind I'll use your post to respond.

Longevity affects the majority of pilots, either through payrates, sick bank, or vacation. The only guys unaffected are those who have already maxed out (ie 19 years completed before 1 April). It is not a cheap fix, no cost, no brainer as some believe because it affects so many people.

A new hire will be earning less total income than you. You received merger equity to "pay" for the "inequity" that you perceive in payrates and retirement contributions. At today's stock prices, that should be more than $36K the new hire never received, and it's already in your retirement account. Every facet of the seniority list has a complaint like this, whether it's the north guy thinking he didn't get value for his sick bank, or the south guy wondering why he's paying more for his DPMA, or both sides complaining about the others pension benefits. It was a package deal. It was a good deal, and it's the first time it was ever achieved in a merger.

If you want your complaints fixed, you'll have to fix mine too. ;)

Let me start by saying I think this is crap and DOE should equal date of pay for all Delta pilots.

However, really it only means two months. You spend 14-15 months at year 1 pay and then you step up every 12 months. Therefore you end up short 2-2.5 months wages at the difference between your year 1 pay and whatever you "could hold" at the start of year 12 pay. (Which right now is roughly I think M88A and 9FO, pay/bennies as of 2009, when this occurred)

M88A $149.07
DC9B -52.09 = $96.98
x 70hrs. x 2 months= $13,577.20
x 11% retirement = 15,070.69
x 175 pilots= $2,637,370.75

cost/DAL Inc. revenue 2009= 2.6mil/35 bil = 0.007535345%
cost/12,000 pilots = $219.78

This is very fuzzy math but you get the idea. In the grand scheme of things it isn't a lot to a corporation, and still not that much when divided among 12,000+ pilots over the effective period of a PWA.

Its friggin' chump change to make these guys whole!!! As a DAL-S guy, I say FIX THIS for my union brothers!!!

I agree the effected NWA pilots should be restored, BUT, if we're going to chase down every unfair hiring scenario, lets go after the DCI people that transferred in with their longevity and try to "me too" on that. After all, management (a few pilots), gate agents & rampers got a whole lot better deal coming to Delta than pilots did.

From one guy who has "chosen to be junior" to another, you'd be better off just being satisfied with what you got out of the merger and going on down the road. Minorities have nearly no power ... junior minorities have less.

But, there are probably enough of you to get a resolution passed. That is the route you should go if you are serious.

I just got in a couple of hours ago and they walked me to the CP in Egan! It's pretty dead here.....:(

Denny

HND, yes, I reserve judgment on LGA until we see what percentage of those jobs go to DCI flying. Creates DAL pilot jobs? Maybe Mr. Moak considers DCI Delta pilots now? Oh sure we'll get some - maybe 25% of the slots, which is some growth for us, but it sure seems like DALPA is carrying a lot of water for management and DCI growth as well - with DAL pilot dues dollars paying for it. :eek:

I think that sums it up. And I don't mean that directed towards the NWA new hires in this situation but to everyone top to bottom and north and south.

It'd be interesting to see a give and take if everyone honestly threw down what they did get and also what they didn't get. I seemingly fly a lot with 91 hires at DALS that were furloughed in 93, they've got some things they'd like fixed.

I think waiting two months is asinine and I wonder why they did that at NWA? But then I wonder why in the hell CAL (and Coex too, or maybe still as well) doesn't pay health benefits for 6 months too. There are some strange "pay your dues" ideas out there.

My emphasis.

I think it all comes down to the fact that the list was agreed to with this as a known. It goes with the package. I understand why those pilot feel disadvantaged but we can all find things that are not fair in our own eyes for each of us. If you look at the first page of the seniority list with numbers 1-55 there are many pilots that have both a DOH and a pay seniority date. It is not unique that these 175+ pilots are in the same situation.

We need to focus on issues that affect the whole of the pilot group or we will constantly be splitting ourselves apart. It is the whole of the group that will get changes in the next contract.