There are two Lockheeds in the background, and they're L-100 Hercules that replaced earlier C-46's. They were Delta's main deck freighter fleet. I believe Delta operated the DC-10 twice, once when the delivery of the L-1011 was delayed in the early 70's, and then again from 1987-1989 after the merger with Western.

Carl;

I would not call it a double standard. What I call it is a bunch of guys getting absolutely miffed at the words used. Like I have tried to say it is the approach. I will not post the details of what went down on here because simply put it does not need to be here. I will state that if either side of an argument uses the nuclear option nothing ends well. It gets blown up, shows up here and people stop listen and continue to talk/type with anger that elevates to the levels it did.

This all results in guys calling you and others bed wetters, and you throwing around comments as well. What does it solve? Nada. You are irked, people are gunning for you and the dialogue ends up in the non-constructive category.

Do I call that a double standard? Nope, I call that a discussion that went emotional. I am glad that you did not name names. If you did, they would have been deleted, and it would have involved a few people getting to play a carpet dance. Was what they said correct? Nope, it just elevated the emotional response.

Carl, you are a smart guy, there are many on here that know how to licit a given response from certain individuals by going after them, but not flaming them and getting a reminder. (fine line)

The crux of this issue that we are tiptoeing around is a philosophical difference in how we run crew rest and PIC assignments. One you can deal with, the other is totally in the hands of Flight Ops Leadership. No one on here has the authority to change it, and the only way to change it is to make a very compelling case as to why they should even consider it. Stating how it is not giving a position.

In closing, argue the facts, all of us, quit the divisiveness, and for God's sake quit name calling.

Well we were running a winter schedule. Now that the full summer schedule will be in effect, standby for fun!
Have that three hr flow chart handy.......:eek:

Many things that are termed "Best Practice" here at DAL somehow feel like procedures. They are technique. Look at the FOM and see how it defines crew rest. It is vague for a reason. The only thing that is directive is the PIC requirement. Even that can change with dispatcher approval. Go read the FOM and report back.

Seconded - there are a lot of things that are briefed in training, OE, on a particular rotation, that sound like procedure when they are actually techniques. It is up to YOU (and I believe most of us are highly experience pilots) how you want to fly your airplane. There is only one PIC on every aircraft (even the 4 man crews) and he has the authority to run the flight however he wants as long as he doesn't violate FARs, written company policy or flight manual restrictions. I believe one of the big differences culturally between Delta and NWA were NWA seemed to have lot more procedures telling you exactly how to do things on your airplane while Delta gives the crews (both Cpt and F/O) a little more latitude. If it's not against any of the above Carl (and all the other unhappy fNWA captains) should be able to run their cockpit however they want. As an F/O, I've flown with Captains that do some things a little different and it is my job to run the airplane how he wants - as long as he's within the rules.

Well, tell the guys giving the briefings in the crew rooms to quit spewing dates. I always thought it was soon, but would have been floored to happen on the date predicted.

And...according to the FOM even if it's not within the rules...his command will be obeyed! (I sh1t you not)

It is in there. We are a Capt's airline! :D

I was just doing my FCCQ disk and the policy is that it depends on the flight segment. The Senior Capt is suppose to decide based on the science (and they give every scenario we fly--ad nauseum) and policy whether to give equal segments of rest or unequal and to whom. Pretty reasonable stuff... nothing that would say it "has to be one way or the other".

They're probably just spewing dates to get us back for all the "corrections" we made to the pilot application page at Delta.com back in January.

"Hey, lets all strongly hint we'll make the JFK announcement on June 29th, and watch them go nuts on APC forums when it doesn't happen. Then we'll make the announcement next morning."