I remember anything over 80 was high time. Open trips were awarded first, then high time trips were awarded. First 5 hrs above 80 went to a bank. 1.5x for hours above 85. Trips awarded over night. Great thing about this was everyone had a shot at the trip, even commuters. The DAL GS program rarely works for anyone not living in base.

deleted.......

? ? ? I'm confused ? ? ?

There's no such thing as a reserve green slip that doesn't touch an X day.

But what if he hasn't submitted a YS & is coming off an X day today, & they assign him a rotation with less then 12 hours notice after 1500 base time? Couldn't it be a GS then?

Heyas,

The premium pay (lets call it OT) at NWA was 1.5 for everything over 80. You could pick up anything in the month, and if over 80, it was OT. If your line, as awarded, was over 80, anything over 80 was OT.

Premium trips also paid 1.5, no matter your credit. If you were over 80, and you got a premium trip, they multiplied (1.5x1.5).

Now as to the cap...that gets way more complicated. Every month, there was a "scheduled monthly max", which was used for bidding purposes. Unlike the line limit at DAL, it wasn't designed to keep people flying all year, but rather it was there to maintain the staffing formula. Anything over the "scheduled monthly max" was considered "high time". You could normally pick up 5 hours past the monthly max as "high time".

BUT, your monthly max could be modified by a number of factors. Some items were pay, no credit, and thus didn't go towards your max. You could also use your negative bank to adjust your max as well. As a result, your real monthly max could be way over 100 hours.

Nu

I put in for a GS they gave me a two day. The days off were just regular days off.

27M RES ** .0948 G 2040 27M
28T RES ** ---- G 1757 28T
29W RES ** 29W
30T RES ** 30T
31F RES XX 31F
DTE OR DES OFF STAT ROT1 D R1 STAT ROT2 D R2 RPT1 RPT2 E/L R CALL BLKN DTE
REMARKS: 3 PB IN BANK REF 0948 GS

Ah, there are your Payback days. Because it's the end of the month, they can't give you more days off this month. So they put them in the bank. You might know this, but you can use them for more vacation in 2011/2012 vacation year. Or you can add them to an existing vacation in Jan/Feb/Mar of 2011 I think.

XX days ARE regular days off.

** are Golden days, or as we called them at NWA....Inviolate days.


If you are on reserve, & you are awarded a GS trip on any OFF day you receive straight pay, no credit AND payback days. Your GS trip was awarded on ** days or Golden days. This doesn't change your GS award in any way. Since the last day off is Dec 31st you have no where left in December to be paid back days off. That is why there is a note stating 3 PB IN BANK REF 0948 GS. Scheduling is telling you they owe you 3 payback days because you are doing Rotation 0948 on days off. They will go in your bank & you can add them to vacation or use them in future months.

In short, you will receive whatever credit the trip is worth to a RESERVE(it could be less since reserves don't always get 5:15) in addition to your 70 hours. So if the trip is worth 10:30 to you, & it's your only GS trip for Dec & you credited 70 hours or less you would be paid 80:30 for December.

Clear as mud? :D

Again, I think there is a philosophical problem at work with trying to make "extra" flying more common, but setting that aside for a moment, it seems like there is an obsession about who gets GS's, and it seems like you're not alone in saying this is a redeeming quality of the 1.5X>80 system. But I'm not hearing any features that make what you say true, i.e. that this system distributed the flying, and the GS doesn't. Maybe there is more to it than what has been posted so far?

From another post above (maddogmax): "...As I recall, everything over 80 hours was paid at 1.5 but anything over 85 was put in the "bank" which could be used later. It was put in as a $ amount not hours.
All open trips were awarded by seniority regardless of how much you had flown. Good to be senior, bad to be junior..."

So, unlike the GS system that has a mechanism to allow people down the list, i.e. "everyone" to "have a shot" at the flying (by prohibiting a 2nd GS until junior people have had a chance at the first), it seems to me the 1.5X>80system actually guaranteed multiple shots to the senior people.

Another myth is that only people in-base get GS's. When I commuted, I pretty much knew when the time was right, and I could stay a day, or commute in a day early, and put in what I wanted. I succesfully conducted a full month of Rolling Thunder that way. The people that I fly with, most of whom commute, have always been able to stick in a GS at the right time. In fact, the only people that wouldn't be happy are people that rely on a steady diet of overtime flying, and have dialed in someone's schedule, somewhere, that's even more of a glutton, and gets more by virtue of being in base. But there has always been benefits of living in base, and only when you look at obscene cases does it become significant. I don't think these obscene cases (I can think of one 800 F/O that was the scourge of NYC, and couldn't possibly "live" unless he could game 120 hours every month) are what you aspire to when you design a "better" system.

So I think we need to have a lot more transparency in our coverage, and I think the entire coverage sequence needs to be re-done. But I don't believe that the GS is unfair for the average guy, that wants to rely on the occasional use of the occasional overtime trip. What makes the premium so premium should be that it's rare, and is also why it should remain expensive to the company. GS's over certainly holidays ought to pay more than 2X, since the company alerady enjoys a number of tools to tweak coverage in their favor.

At any rate, when we're trying to get more pilots to do more overtime more rotuinely, for less money, we're drifting away from the purposes of a unionized group.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again - Do we really want a lot of Pilots trying to fly over 80 hrs? I personally don't. Green-slips normally kick in at 75 and can go as low as 70 with a 5 hour bank withdrawal. Lets run some rudimentary numbers here:

Lets assume 20% of Pilots try to max out and fly 85 under the 1.5 system or fly 75 under the GS system, in this case both yielding 5 premium hours:

20% of 12,000 is 2,400 pilots and a difference of 10 hours totals 24,000 block hours. At even 100 hours per pilot (conservative when figuring pilots required - ie. most pilots do not fly 100 hours) thats an excess of 240 pilots with the 1.5 sytem.

The GS method does the same thing, but is not nearly as bad since it kicks in as low as 70 hours. I will be first to admit that these numbers are merely notional, but hey - pick your own numbers and run them. If you were a junior line-holder, you just got bumped back to reserve. If you were a junior Captain, say hello to your old friend the right seat.

Like I said, both the Gs and the 1.5 cause this problem to but to different degrees - bottom line watch out for what you wish for, especially when it is an antinomy - the more guys want to fly to make more money - the more some will have to fly to make the same $$$.

How about we just get a friggin pay raise!

Scoop