Agreed. JetBlue just got raises & they didn't even match our 320 rates, let alone exceed them. And have you seen what North American or Omni get paid to fly their jets? How about Kalitta, Atlas, World, Southern, Polar, or Evergreen?

We need to look beyond pay rates. I want rate raises too, but we need to work on rigs & work rules too.

 

But jetBlue guys can wear a GoT ... a huge plus. Maybe.

I think we need to fix reserve (make it predictable and fair) and create a company policy that gets commuters to work -- even though I'm not one. Doing so would mean that our "sickcall" rates would improve and we wouldn't need as many reserve pilots. But at the same time, I don't want money that could go into my pocket book to be used to pay for commuters. Unfortunately, I really think the feds are going to "fix" that area for us soon.

I am all for our company becoming leaner and more efficient with our pilots. I don't want to pay for people to sit at home and do nothing. Those days are over. You are costing all of us money to do that. I just came off a 85 day reserve stint where I did nothing ... absolutely nothing. That is ludicrous. I understand in the super premium wide bodies, reserves may not be used much, but in the narrow body when other bases are bleeding, it doesn't make sense for someone to be sitting at home.

Better pay, more efficient scheduling, fix reserve and commuting.

 

Happy New Years everyone and best wishes in 2011. Now down to business.

Apple, gonna throw the B S Flag on this.

The largest aviation market in the world is the United States domestic market. The largest carrier of domestic revenue passengers which flies the most revenue passengers miles flown in this market is ...SWA.

And....that is before they absorb AirTran. So, in name only SWA does not define industry average. However, when you look at the amount of flying they do relative other carriers in this market, they do more than define average. They set the bar.

Sorry Apple, here comes another B S Flag.

It is naive not to compare us to cargo carriers such as FedEX and UPS. As the economy picks up, so does our under the floor premium cargo business. We fly more and more cargo in our daily ops every year. Not one item passes through our cargo doors without revenue being collected.

How much $$$$$$$$$$$$ did they make at the widget factory last year on baggage fees alone. Last I checked, baggage and cargo are one and the same.

Finally, as long as we are gazing into the compensation and benefit mirror on the wall and comparing ourselves to other aviators, lets not forget our bro's from different ho's. If your really want to distill this down similiar types of operations, this must be included.

How much do our SkyTeam bro's at AirFrance/KLM make. What are their work rules like. Hint: We have much room for improvement

 

Great post, Manager! I'm sure PG and Johnso's intentions are good... but I can't for the life of me understand why any one of us would continually make the case AGAINST the kind of improvements that are necessary to get our careers back on track.

 

I agree. PG and that crowd seem to argue management's points using management's skewed statistics. Callling FDX and UPS an entirely different industry, even though we both move freight. Trying to minimize the impact of SWA wages and now AirTran wages. If what I'm seeing is true across the board, their views are becoming the minority. Even among (as someone else put it) those die hard widget lovers in Peachtree City.

Carl

 

right on- I see terms get thrown around such as industry standard. What exactly is that? Is southwest in the industry? Is fdx and ups? In the frax world, for example, industry standard meant the highest paying (netjets). If you weren't industry standard then you weren't industry highest/leading. IMO, wn is the industry benchmark with the bottom of any bar set there (737 to 737.)

 

...Agreed.

 

I think some out there in cyberspace are equating the term "industry average" to the term "industry standard."

They are not the same thing.

I don't want Delta to be average, I want them to set the standard.

....and then I want another airline to set a higher standard, then another airline set an even higher standard, etc., etc.........

 

No no no no. Either I need to re-write my post or you misunderstood me. I was merely agreeing that our current pay rates are among the best in the industry. That doesn't mean I'm happy with them, or that I don't want to get pre BK wages. I WANT better pay raises, but not JUST pay raises. I know we are in agreement on this.

I also didn't read PG's post as saying we can't be compared to SWA or FedEx/UPS. He merely stated that they don't set the 'industry standard'.

 

Yes, we do agree on this. But here's what you wrote:

You seem to be justifying our current rates as being better than "industry standard" and making the case AGAINST the kind of increases that would be truly restorative. I don't have a problem with improving rigs & work rules... but I don't see what we have now as being all that bad. To me the real critical areas are pay and scope. Those are the two areas that are far below where they should be. Again, you seem to be arguing against restorative improvements in those areas. Am I misunderstanding you?