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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1032230)
Constitutionally, they can't. I'm sure they are trying though.
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Originally Posted by alfaromeo
(Post 1032132)
So a weak independent union leaves their pilots exposed. ALPA inherits the mess and puts every effort to try to mitigate the damage that a weak independent union created. SWA management and SWAPA collude to attack the Airtran pilots. And its ALPA's fault. Got it. Do you even read what you write?
So tell me, Mr. Scambo, exactly what would YOU do? Give us the plan. You seem real quick with the criticism, so what would advise ALPA to do? That said, you ask me what I would do if I was ALPA, maybe ALPA president, not scambo the DAL pogue? I would unearth and unleash every possible legal angle to protect the AT pilots from being screwed contrary to the legal precedent. I would also prepare all of my unions strike preparedness committees for a national SOS. That should get the attention of a few of the "boards" in DC. Oh harumph, we cant do a national SOS. It wouldnt be prudent. Until our union realizes it has to use ALL the tools in its chest (including the dynamite) it will not be powerful and will instead be the weak castrated gimp that it is. "SWAPA colluded with management." Prove that in court and you solved the whole issue. |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1032128)
This is much like the Delta contract. There are many who advocate a contract position with nothing less then total restoration plus inflation. Sounds great on paper but again what are the risks and what are the rewards. If you end up iced by the NMB and 5 years later we are still working under this agreement was that a wise choice? Then sit back and let the company make the case to the NMB that little old Southwest's pilot compensation and scope package is just too unreasonable for a global powerhouse. |
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1032230)
Constitutionally, they can't. I'm sure they are trying though.
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Contract Rant
OK, I realize pay, work rules, sick leave are all important, but for the upcoming contract survey, my number 1 thru 10 priority is scope. Consider this:
- You used to be able to fly on Delta metal to Recife, Fortaleze, and Manaus in Brazil, now you can go there via codeshare with Gol - You used to be able to fly daily (summer season) from ATL to Puerto Vallarta, now it is Sat only other wise code share with Aero Mexico - After the summer draw down you can get to TXL, ARG, CPH, MAN, SNN, PSA, AGP, VLC, BUD and one more I forget! via our JV partners. Not to mention EDI, OTP, AMM, CAI. - you used to be able to fly to Ho Chi Minh, Vietnam on us, now it is Vietnam Airlines. - you used to be able to fly LAX to GRU non stop on us, Now you can fly on Korean Air, MWF. How this is legal is beyond me but you can. This is the RJ playbook but with top end flying pure and simple. Wish we could stop it, but according to my union rep, the company is in compliance with our contract. In that case, our contract sucks. fish |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1032239)
So if Nu is right on the 70/30 number at FL, that 70 pretty much would be all of the Captains and AirTran new hires. The 30 would be mostly FOs.
Without considering the mood of FL pilots I could see that happening just on the basis of what's being offered. But I think all pilots at FL need to ask, would they get a better deal in arbitration? I say yes, better SLI and the same pay. This is a messy situation brewing either way bit stand for your own. For SWA pilots, yeah they make $50K more than us but you know they wish we were still C2K right now because they could demand a large raise, but given where they sit there probably isn't room for a raise that would be significant to offset what SWA see as unfair. I'm surprised SWA doesn't placate it's pilots with $$ bonus to sign off on a less onerous SLI. I don't think this passes. AirTran pilots IMHO will vote no. From what I've seen of the Tranny group is that they're a pretty pragmatic group...at least in the short term. The senior half and junior 10 percent see the gold on the SWA side, the QoL if they stick in ATL, and the reportedly penny-ante nature of their management, and are looking for a quick fix. A couple years from now, when direct deposit money is spent before it hits their account, the the permanentcy of the situation will start to dawn on them and it will REALLY start to fester. But unlike most other SLIs, they will have no one to blame but themselves. It's still a big poo sandwich, though. Nu |
Originally Posted by NuGuy
(Post 1032282)
Heyas FTB,
From what I've seen of the Tranny group is that they're a pretty pragmatic group...at least in the short term. The senior half and junior 10 percent see the gold on the SWA side, the QoL if they stick in ATL, and the rather penny-ante nature of their management, and are looking for a quick fix. A couple years from now, when direct deposit money is spent before it hits their account, the the permanentcy of the situation will start to dawn on them and it will REALLY start to fester. But unlike most other SLIs, they will have no one to blame but themselves. It's still a big poo sandwich, though. Nu |
Originally Posted by tsquare
(Post 1032155)
So if this goes down the way it is looking like, what would be the incentive for anybody else to join ALPA? If you have to be a plankholder to garner the protections that the genius lawyers can get for you, why pony up the dues and put up with the bull**** when you can write a check and use ALPA as a consultation (like APA is currently doing)? If I am... say UPS.. (not that they would join, but for example...) and I see ATI get burned while ALPA fiddles, why would I join? The reverse of this is true. If a smaller carrier within ALPA watches ATI get burned.. why should they hang around when they might be able to find better representation elsewhere? This is thin ice for Herndon IMHO, and they'd best not blow it.
I am sorry, but this Airtran deal only demonstrates to a carrier like Jet Blue exactly why they should join ALPA. Right now, Jet Blue is in worse shape than Airtran. They have virtually no protections. Sure there are the Bond/McKasckill laws, but they only apply when the companies actually merge. Doesn't say anything about buying the company and letting it die on the vine while you take all their assets. This is almost unbelievable that an independent union blows it for their pilots and some conclude that an independent union is the answer. Hey, I got a plan, the New England Patriots should copy the management structure of the Cincinnati Bengals, that has been working out so well lately let's emulate that team that loses. |
Originally Posted by scambo1
(Post 1032241)
First let me say, I'm not real quick with the criticism. I have been uncritical for much of my DAL life. However, the distrust/mistrust has brewed over time and I have come to the conclusion that ALPA national serves no real purpose.
That said, you ask me what I would do if I was ALPA, maybe ALPA president, not scambo the DAL pogue? I would unearth and unleash every possible legal angle to protect the AT pilots from being screwed contrary to the legal precedent. I would also prepare all of my unions strike preparedness committees for a national SOS. That should get the attention of a few of the "boards" in DC. Oh harumph, we cant do a national SOS. It wouldnt be prudent. Until our union realizes it has to use ALL the tools in its chest (including the dynamite) it will not be powerful and will instead be the weak castrated gimp that it is. "SWAPA colluded with management." Prove that in court and you solved the whole issue. So now we play the SOS card. Explain to me how conducting an SOS is any different than robbing a bank. As long as we are violating the law, we might as well go where all the money is. I don't have to prove that SWAPA colluded with management. They have every right to collude with their management, what would we go to court for? Neither SWA management nor SWAPA have any duty to the Airtran pilots therefore they are free to collude to their hearts content. Check out Guadalupe Holdings and tell me what you find out. Then come back with a real answer. You have a lot of anger but not a lot of plans. |
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