Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1036722)

What our code share partner is taking delivery of:
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../3/1965387.jpg


What we are taking delivery of (also by virtue of further outsourcing):
http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviatio.../4/1965478.jpg

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1036997)

1. SWA pay
2. SWA scope
3. SWA profitability sure beats

Originally Posted by georgetg (Post 1037009)

Step 1. Collect underpants
Step 2. ?
Step 3. Profits

Nice SP reference Sir!

Cheers
George

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1037038)

I forgot, this one is kind of old but hey, bashing attila is always fun:

http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/a...id/temp-92.jpg

It's a funny quirk of a pilot, they always ask why. Such as why are we paying for something that you don't know if I used or not?

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1037041)

I heard from a certain LCA that the company wasn't going to renew the ATILA contract, but someone ended up out of turn and renewed it. Now it's here to save face...

Take that for what it's worth, but at least the ATILA crap hasn't been shoved in our faces so much lately.

What's really going to be funny is when those beachballs flying 250/.73 start flying into ATL and really throw the optimum ATILA world for a spin.

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1037047)

Do you guys really think we will see the openers from either DALPA or the Company? I don't think so. I imagine we will hear about parts of them but I'll be REALLY surprised if we see the whole openers from either side. I guess my cynical side is showing thru.

Denny

Originally Posted by Denny Crane (Post 1037047)

Do you guys really think we will see the openers from either DALPA or the Company? I don't think so. I imagine we will hear about parts of them but I'll be REALLY surprised if we see the whole openers from either side. I guess my cynical side is showing thru.

Denny

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1036997)

I bet they will open with a paycut disguised as a raise. Something like "increases of up to 40%" which of course will only be 5ish% per year partial cost of living adjustments, a few minor improvements here and there, and a few net concessionary things here and there. They will then count on the media, watercooler talk among other employee groups and even pilot apologists to parrot the "40% raise" lie. This is basic freshman airline management 101 straight from their oldest playbook. As a bonus, doesn't RA does work with one of the federal reserve branches/board of governers? Either way, he knows very well how inflationatory policy is used as a hidden tax to siphon wealth away from those who earn it, retroactively and across the board.

This goes so far beyond "restoration" as a general concept or "back in my day you could buy a Cadillac with a month's pay" or whatever. Forget high water marks of a different era and let's take all the emotion like that out of it and focus on what we know to be reasonably true, right here, right now.

Is it absolutely essential that we:

1. take note of the full and complete increase in cost of living, which is far in excess of the bogus "official" CPI numbers which exclude food and energy, which are, by far, the biggest inflationary cost pressures to most of us when it comes to how much to look for in a COLA, therefore we MUST:

2. back that number OUT of any claim of a "raise" over the life of the agreement AND:

3. Demand instant SWA per pilot small narrowbody W-2 parity, plus a premium for our massive additional revenue and higher per pilot revenue, plus a premium for our massive scope relief for flat out whole product outsourcing, plus a premium for our massive code share partnership relief, plus a premium for widebody flying above all that in proportion.

4. Back out every penny at or below SWA per pilot W-2 from being in the same room as the word "raise" or "increase" especially "over the life of" nonsense. If it takes 35% to get SWA parity and on day one we get 40%, we got a 5% raise. If we get 5% per year for 5 years, that is, at best, a zero percent raise, as the trillions we are printing out of thin air, including compounded interest costs which are also being printed out of thin air, will at least equal that (and likely more). But we have to start with a number at some point, so a negative 5% erosion, compounder per year, at a minimum, should statistically be backed out of any and all "raise" claims in additon to backing out 100% of every penny it takes to just equal SWA.

5. Only discuss money in excess of SWA AND in excess of a coumpounded 5% per year as a "raise" both initially and over the live of C12K.

6. In the event that a company or union agreed upon offer, TA, proposal or even opener is less than above, it shall be referred to appropriately as a pay cut.

7. ALPA's esteemed EF&A needs to drastically recalculate its epic fail method of calculating/rationalizing positive "bargaining credits" for outsourcing to its proper metric, which is clearly a substantial negative wage and benefit pressure on a per pilot basis, which is the entire reason for outsourcing the core business of an airline to begin with when you give them relief in section one: to give management relief from sections 2 through infinity, which not only prevents jobs at YOUR airline/pilot group, but produces long lasting negative wage, benefit, retirement and work rule pressure at every level.

The hoodwinking is over for C12K. Partial COLA's are not raises. Partial restoration is not a raise. SWA parity is not a raise. SWA pay, SWA scope, premiums for widebody, premiums for our massive network/first class/travel infrastructure, SWA work rules at a minimum for narrowbody domestic (plus inprovement for reasons already mentioned) and once all of that is taken care of, then and only then can the "me too" nonsense even be allowed into the discussion. If the company says that is too expensive, the debate should automatically shift to the issue of management competency.

1. SWA pay
2. SWA scope
3. SWA profitability sure beats

1. outsource/shrink
2. ?
3. profits.