Originally Posted by iaflyer

That's why we need to get the raises via work rules. Wall Street types and newspapers look for the quick quote, "15% over 3 years". But get the money in the work rules or retirement - they won't know what 4:30 vacation pay means or 5:15 min day. Or additional 5% in 401(k) contribution.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

On a different subject. There seems to be a lot of fingers pointed around on who would give up what during the contract negotiations. In particular, old guys don't want to rock the boat this close to retirement and young civilian guys have never made this much money and they'll never rock the boat.

I think when it comes to the young civilian guys you'd be surprised how many of them, despite making more than their previous job, have no problem walking off the job.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

Need to be on the Maynard Jackson "approved" list to start a biz there...


Don't tell my wife, but in regards to Pam, I did that.

Originally Posted by LandGreen2

Exactly! Maybe we could come up with our own clever TFP rig like SWA has?

1 hour of work is equal to 1.3 or 1.4 TFP. Base our existing pay rate on the new TFP metric; add modest (Wall St friendly) increases, new min day and a few others??

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

I want you to go sit in the corner and think about what you did.


And that doesn't mean "think" about what you did, it means think about what you did wrong.

and that doesn't mean critique your performance, it means... I give up.

Originally Posted by Check Essential

I don't know why everyone is putting so much emphasis on the opener.
I still think its even money that the union and management will agree to not even publish detailed "openers". As long as we're still operating under this "constructive engagement" thing there's not much to be gained by staking out extreme positions for public consumption at the start of negotiations. All that does is generate animosity.

Speculation:
Contrary to the popular consensus on the various web forums, I think its possible that the absence of militant rhetoric coming from our union is not necessarily a sign of weakness or any effort to manage expectations but may instead be a deliberate effort to see if all this Moak-inspired new age labor relations will work. They may be preparing to test management's sincerity in living up to the spirit of the Recovery Compact they signed.

The keyboard warriors, myself included, have been going on the assumption that there has to be a full scale battle. That a decent contract is not going to be possible until we're all out there marching in front of the airport, inflating the rat and burning scrap lumber in 55 gallon drums.
DALPA might be trying to break that paradigm. They've been at it for 5 years now. What makes us think they don't intend to continue it now that it really counts and test it right through the first few bargaining sessions? What if a low key approach leads to a good contract on or before the amendable date without all the drama? Is that unacceptable? Wouldn't that actually be preferable? Time value of money and all that.

The AA pilots tried the big opener with the radical rhetoric and the inflammatory attacks on their management. The result was less than spectacular. The NMB stiff-armed them and they have been forced to basically start over. Meanwhile, years go by. A politically savvy, well prepared, calm business-like approach might be worth a try.

Its ultimately gonna be up to Anderson. We can always shift tactics and pull out the torches and pitchforks if management refuses to pay us what we deserve and this thing drags into 2013.

I'm growing weary of the unsubstantiated claims that somebody's friend's brother overheard an unnamed ALPA rep at the 31 Flavors saying we can't get big gains in this contract. I'm not buying it.
We elected these guys, they know damn well we expect to be paid, and I think we're going to have to let them try it their way. And if you don't trust them and you think they're planning to sell us out then I've only got 2 words: Membership Ratification.

Sorry for the long rant. The football game got boring.

I'm an optimist I guess. (but I do have my pitchfork in the garage)

Originally Posted by UncleSam

I think this man might be on to something. Great post.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

How about a 20% cut in hourly pay?

But then paid by the duty hour? Make reserve 15 days on a month and min 10 duty hours per day.

Originally Posted by DALMD88FO

This man is also NOT looking at the last 11 years of history. Pretty much Delta management has asked and we have given. I do not want the fired up beat your chest types either, however If you don't think management is going to fight for every little thing in contract negotiations then you are not living in reality.