Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
10-20-2011, 04:40 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A330
Posts: 216
Originally Posted by 1234
It is interesting in that the top captain is 9700 euros and the base captain is 7600 euros however, the base FO is only 2750 euros. Using your calculations, the base FO us rate would be just under $90,000/year.
Are you suggesting that the FO's take more pay cuts in order to increase the captain pay?
Are you suggesting that the FO's take more pay cuts in order to increase the captain pay?
10-20-2011, 04:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by 1234
It is interesting in that the top captain is 9700 euros and the base captain is 7600 euros however, the base FO is only 2750 euros. Using your calculations, the base FO us rate would be just under $90,000/year.
Are you suggesting that the FO's take more pay cuts in order to increase the captain pay?
Are you suggesting that the FO's take more pay cuts in order to increase the captain pay?
Top FO rates are about about 7,200 euros ($120,000/yr.)
I'm not 100% if base and top FO is the same as junior and senior, so correct me if I'm wrong here.
It also says that these figures are after tax, so our real dollar amount would need to be even higher to achieve the same compensation.
I can see that it is not exactly an apples to oranges comparison given that cost of living and tax obligations are much higher, but even with taking that into consideration it appears that we are grossly underpaid in comparison to our European counterparts.
10-20-2011, 04:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Originally Posted by Timbo
It's a thankless job, no doubt, and frankly I've always wondered why anyone would want to do it, but once you have accepted the job, why would you walk into a contract road show and say, "I really don't want to be here..."
To me, he seems to be acting in an honest and forthright manner, and is doing exactly what we've been asking for. We want someone who will listen to us, and base the MEC's direction on that input. We're six months away from exchanging openers, and guys are ready to crucify him already.
10-20-2011, 05:03 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: 767ER capt
Posts: 1,190
Is 9700 Euro/month the monthly take-home pay for an A380 captain? That doesn't seem like very much. I would hope we don't rely too much on the AF/KLM numbers.
10-20-2011, 05:04 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,398
Originally Posted by CVG767A
Or why not be honest with the people you're representing?
To me, he seems to be acting in an honest and forthright manner, and is doing exactly what we've been asking for. We want someone who will listen to us, and base the MEC's direction on that input. We're six months away from exchanging openers, and guys are ready to crucify him already.
To me, he seems to be acting in an honest and forthright manner, and is doing exactly what we've been asking for. We want someone who will listen to us, and base the MEC's direction on that input. We're six months away from exchanging openers, and guys are ready to crucify him already.
Those who can or will...DO.
Those who can't (or in our case, won't)...get on forums and complain.
10-20-2011, 05:31 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Stay THIRSTY, my friends!
Posts: 1,898
I wanted to credit gloopy for shedding light on a very, very profound and disturbing reality. One that I intend to express directly to Mr Anderson if and when I am given the chance.
That for the typical pilot, family of four or five, to be able to purchase tickets to travel on Delta would very likely break the bank for most of us. How many of us (with families to support) have a couple of grand lying around any more?
Mr. Anderson et al: WE CAN'T AFFORD THE PRODUCT WE PRODUCE!
That is fundamentally wrong. Morally wrong. Our pay is not commensurate with our responsibilities, our sacrifices, nor our contribution to the bottom line. Time to pay us what we are WORTH, my friends.
That for the typical pilot, family of four or five, to be able to purchase tickets to travel on Delta would very likely break the bank for most of us. How many of us (with families to support) have a couple of grand lying around any more?
Mr. Anderson et al: WE CAN'T AFFORD THE PRODUCT WE PRODUCE!
That is fundamentally wrong. Morally wrong. Our pay is not commensurate with our responsibilities, our sacrifices, nor our contribution to the bottom line. Time to pay us what we are WORTH, my friends.
10-20-2011, 05:35 AM
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 11,990
Originally Posted by CVG767A
We frequently see guys on this board decrying career ALPA politicians. Now we have an MEC chairman who would rather be on the line, but sees work that needs to be done by "someone", and actually steps up to the plate to do it.
After reading this board and the ALPA boards, who would actually be eager to take the job? After most of our past contracts have been signed, we've tended to vilify the MEC chairman at the time. I'm sure this one will be no different. Who would choose that over just flying to Europe once a week?
Wouldn't it just be easier to sit at the computer and complain about the MEC's direction or the pace of negotiations?
My hat's off to Tim for taking on the responsibility.
After reading this board and the ALPA boards, who would actually be eager to take the job? After most of our past contracts have been signed, we've tended to vilify the MEC chairman at the time. I'm sure this one will be no different. Who would choose that over just flying to Europe once a week?
Wouldn't it just be easier to sit at the computer and complain about the MEC's direction or the pace of negotiations?
My hat's off to Tim for taking on the responsibility.
I did not hear the statement. As quoted, it was a political foul ball. However it is refreshing to hear a candid, non political, word every now and then. Too often we just get fed rhetoric which flies against the reality of our position. The logical disconnect between rhetoric and action frustrated me. I prefer a MEC Chair do the job out of a sense of service rather than the the notion that they are guys who went to tthe top because they were too smart to be "just a pilot." (Not aimed at anyone in particular)
The Chair has a tough job. Seeing as how the better he does, the better I do ... He has my support.
10-20-2011, 05:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 139
On a different note
Some things are happening that could be very influential at Delta.
I am speaking of LEC elections which are currently being held. I know that several of you have given up on ALPA, and that's fine, but please read on.
While you are gathering up your cards, which I don't have a problem with BTW, how about affecting how things currently are. It is my opinion that the outcome of a couple key elections could significantly affect how things run here at the Delta level of ALPA--and thus solve some of the issues causing you to defect to the "other side". As such, as these changes occur, you may find yourself being more and more of the process--as in your complaints ARE being heard.
Specifically, the LAX election is a very key component of how the MEC works as things stand right now. I would suggest for our LAX based pilots who are seeking the kind of changes promised by the DPA to consider voting OUT the pilots currently holding office. Also, I would recommend passing the word to your fellow LAX pilots. Give the new guys a call and ask them about their positions on things which are important to you. Vote accordingly, and encourage those you fly with to do so as well.
As ACL says, I would much rather take care of the growing dissatisfaction in house, and this is a great first step. The current administration will do everything in its power to keep things status quo--meaning their views hold the voting majority at the MEC.
Change starts with you. It is time for the MEC to begin working as it was intended--from the ground up.
I am speaking of LEC elections which are currently being held. I know that several of you have given up on ALPA, and that's fine, but please read on.
While you are gathering up your cards, which I don't have a problem with BTW, how about affecting how things currently are. It is my opinion that the outcome of a couple key elections could significantly affect how things run here at the Delta level of ALPA--and thus solve some of the issues causing you to defect to the "other side". As such, as these changes occur, you may find yourself being more and more of the process--as in your complaints ARE being heard.
Specifically, the LAX election is a very key component of how the MEC works as things stand right now. I would suggest for our LAX based pilots who are seeking the kind of changes promised by the DPA to consider voting OUT the pilots currently holding office. Also, I would recommend passing the word to your fellow LAX pilots. Give the new guys a call and ask them about their positions on things which are important to you. Vote accordingly, and encourage those you fly with to do so as well.
As ACL says, I would much rather take care of the growing dissatisfaction in house, and this is a great first step. The current administration will do everything in its power to keep things status quo--meaning their views hold the voting majority at the MEC.
Change starts with you. It is time for the MEC to begin working as it was intended--from the ground up.
10-20-2011, 05:47 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 243
Originally Posted by CVG767A
Is 9700 Euro/month the monthly take-home pay for an A380 captain? That doesn't seem like very much. I would hope we don't rely too much on the AF/KLM numbers.
For reference:
In 2004 the median household income in the United States was $44,389.
In France the average gross salary was 3,931 € / 5,307 $, monthly in 2006 (or $64,684/year) the average net salary was 1,828 € / 2,468 $, monthly in 2006
So if the quoted top rate is in euros (9700) then the top take home salary is 5.3 times the average income in France.
10-20-2011, 05:53 AM
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Wasn't too hard to find this info for Air France pilots as of August 2011:
Top Captain pay is 9,700 Euros/month after taxes. Now, for a little math:
9,700 Euros = $13,190 US Dollars
Top tier French taxation is over 50%
$13,190 US Dollars After taxes = about $26,380 Before taxes (conservatively)
$26,380 X 12 months = $316,560 Annually.
And of course with France's pseudo-socialist state, many things that we pay for are not paid for by Air France pilots. But let's leave that out of the discussion and just simply say that $316,560 Annually sounds like a great floor for our Section 6 based on our direct competitors and JV "partners". I know the NMB will agree.
Here's the link I got the 9,700 euros/month figure: Air France-KLM/ jobs, payscales and entry requirements.
DALPA is doing EVERYTHING in its power to keep truthful comparisons from us. WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?
Carl
Top Captain pay is 9,700 Euros/month after taxes. Now, for a little math:
9,700 Euros = $13,190 US Dollars
Top tier French taxation is over 50%
$13,190 US Dollars After taxes = about $26,380 Before taxes (conservatively)
$26,380 X 12 months = $316,560 Annually.
And of course with France's pseudo-socialist state, many things that we pay for are not paid for by Air France pilots. But let's leave that out of the discussion and just simply say that $316,560 Annually sounds like a great floor for our Section 6 based on our direct competitors and JV "partners". I know the NMB will agree.
Here's the link I got the 9,700 euros/month figure: Air France-KLM/ jobs, payscales and entry requirements.
DALPA is doing EVERYTHING in its power to keep truthful comparisons from us. WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?
Carl
Carl;
I dont want to say that DALPA acted somewhat as predicted. I really dont. REALLY!
Thanks for tracking down this link.
The pay referenced is AFTER TAXES. TAKE HOME PAY. There is also 2 months of vacation, free medical, etc.
This is not flamebait either: Air france 777A takes 10 years to achieve. Source: an air france pilot 2 years ago. Scoop would be an Air France 777 captain. Sorry Timbo.
Did this link also make its way to the DALPA board?
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