Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)

- - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman49 (Post 624329)

The relationship should not be warm and fuzzy, but rather a professional relationship...where we both need each other.

Agreed. But the company loves Maok. What do we make of that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 624345)

1. Acted like a union and not sold everyone's unity and job protection as "bargaining credits" to offset concessions to a few members retirement and pay packages (and I'm not just talking about D-ALPA). A union's top priority must be unity. Outsourcing is absolute poison to the association.

When resolutions calling for study at the LEC level are responded to at the MEC level with votes of acclimation crushing the action requested by members, what are members to do? The next step is very destructive and truthfully, as an ALPA supporter, I'll blink 10 out of 10 times before stabbing my Rep in the back, or trying to undermine my bargaining agent. The representational relationship has to be based on mutual support to work effectively. So, if our association mows over us, does it benefit us to go nuts and set up USAPA Chapter 2? The best we can do is continue to support our association and hope that it finds a representational and moral compass to update its position from.

2. Wrote and got resolutions passed, did committee work, walked a few hundred miles in circles carrying signs, made presentations to my LEC and MEC, wrote the association's President. Exhausted all internal remedies and stopped short of suing the union.

Slowplay - The truth is, his union does legally speak for him, but has forgot it has a representational duty to consider his input and act accordingly. Basically your question challenges those of us who want reform to seek relief through external mechanisms like decertification, or litigation. Before you corner people with that question, first think about whether the answer is going to be your desired outcome.

Your very question is the issue that got the hot heads on the phone to Mike Haber.

Man is THAT ever a great post. You are spot on Bar.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 624352)

You are correct.

Carl

See, I knew we would get along. I'll raise the gear for ya Capt. Carl. Not likely I'll ever see the whale though. Oh well, I really don't want to carry all my bags up stairs anyway. That's a lie. I'd do it for the whale!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdaddie (Post 624353)

Agreed. But the company loves Maok. What do we make of that?

BD...that in itself should be worrisome to the membership, he works for the membership, not the other way around.

Those stairs are a pain, come over to the dark side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 624343)

The funny thing is that during the BK negotiations there was a proposal out there that had us keeping the Pension. Neither side wanted to hear it, so they removed that author of that proposal from the room.

Economically, was that even possible with the under funding? It sounds great, but also sounds kind of impossible without an AIG style bail out that was not coming. NWA paid a very high price to keep what they preserved and now, unfortunately, you and I get that bill despite being two airlines removed from where that deal took place.

It still miffs me that AIG has effectively ran their company into bankruptcy four times now and still everyone has their very generous pension plans. Most of the Execs left the Company for better jobs elsewhere when the ship sank, yet they keep their rights to benefits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman49 (Post 624368)

BD...that in itself should be worrisome to the membership, he works for the membership, not the other way around.

Those stairs are a pain, come over to the dark side.

That's my point regarding Moak. I don't think he represents the collective desires of the membership. I do think that he believes he is acting in the collective interest of the membership.

Did that make any sense?

Completely.

BB.. NWA paid a very high price to keep what they preserved and now, unfortunately, you and I get that bill despite being two airlines removed from where that deal took place.

What was the high price you were talking about? Thx.

BigDaddie - Lets give Moak credit where credit is due:

He played a big role in keeping Delta out of US Air (which would have been an absolute disaster) This work alone should earn him a congratulatory cold beverage in any group of Delta pilots (or even SkyWest, Pinnacle, Mesaba, Compass, ASA, Comair, Shuttle America, Republic, Chautaqua, Mesa, Freedom, Skywest, Delta Air Elite, US Helicopter - did I forget anyone? Well, Moak should never buy dinner or a beer on that basis alone)
He played the claim credits very well
He certainly helped keep a lid on the merger and avoided USAPA Chapter 2
Delta's contract is near the top of its peer group
Delta's MEC functions very well for a huge and disparate group at this stage of a merger
He represents his band of the seniority list in a way that he earnestly believes is best for our profession

My read on Chairman Moak is that he has a lot of integrity, he thinks like a senior manager, a hedge fund analyst and a Marine.

Where he differs from the "unionists" is that he thinks like a senior manager, a hedge fund analyst and a Marine. When it comes to scope he thinks tactically instead of strategically. He does not see ALPA as a union. He sees many divisions within ALPA, not all of them friends and not all deserving of the same representation.

Not that I've spent a lot of time with our Chairman, but I do really appreciate 95+% of what he has done to make this airline a better place to work. I have no doubt is heart and head are in the right place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceman49 (Post 624373)

Completely.

What was the high price you were talking about? Thx.

The outsourcing and flow down that takes away our promotional opportunities and puts on the list to flow off the property as our flying is replaced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 624343)

Where did you come up with this tidbit? It is complete fabrication. You can pm me some supporting info, or look forward to me rolling in hot on your management side again...

btw, how does this help us look forward?:mad: