As the post wasn't directed to you, next time try answering in context.

TC was talking about Delta ALPA and Midwest.

You ran with a scope rant using "info" from a former NWA MEC from 5 years ago as the basis of your argument.

As far as decertification and Haber, should we be as frightened now as we were then?:p Exactly what has dan ford and the RJDC "won"? What has USAPA "won"?

If you want to try again, answer the questions as they were posed, please. Otherwise, leave my name off the rant.

You've got a really bad memory, but since you've only been here 12 years and 1 regular Section 6 contract I can understand that. C2K must have been a terrible "give" in your opinion...as was the 73N rate, the 777 rate, the conversion of profit sharing to pay, etc.

1. Force Majeure is a legal term applied in most contracts and enforced by courts even where the term didn't exist in the contract.

2. Do the math. Help me out with what C2K rates would "cost," then apply it to our current operation. You might want to compare the difference in pilot wage cost between AMR and Delta between 2001-2004, and then tell me how much the difference in cash on hand was for the two companies when Delta declared bankruptcy and AMR avoided it. Then fondly remember your pension and all the other stuff that was taken from you in court.

You might do that same math exercise for LUV and JBLU. Remember Alaska had their butts handed to them by an arbitrator during the same timeframe. They never went through bankruptcy, and at the end of their new deal they'll still be making less than Delta pilots on similar equipment.

Compare it to the airlines that got large wage increases in 2000-2002. Like DAL, UAL, AAA, NWA. Lasted a long time for all of them, didn't it?

Clearly, Delta was mismanaged by Leo Millions and the SERP gang of thieves. But you can't have total costs out of line with the marketplace and your competitors and survive. It appears you didn't learn the lesson the Second Circuit taught us.

For the pension to be "saved" would have required Delta, ALPA, PBGC, the Official Committee of Unsecured Creditors, and the Bankruptcy Court to all collude in defiance of the law.

Not likely. Your response is spot on, Bar. If you read the transcipts from the court, the only person "hoping" to save the pension was Jack Gallagher (Delta and Lorenzo attorney), as he wanted a second bite at the concession apple like UAL had.

Bankruptcy sucks. This unbridled corporate elitism that we charade around as capitalism in our land is a prime example of legal abuse. The law needs to change to adapt to reality.

We find ourselves in complete agreement.

..

I heard "Blue Horseshoe loves Anacott Steel" - when RJET reaches $6.00 give a little taste to your friends. Keep my name out of it. Gotta go, Martha Stewart's on the phone from her jet.

If so, it comes from someone that had first hand knowledge.

You can go after what you perceive as my management side, but that is like punching at a shadow that does not exist. Just a line guy here.

I am just trying to figure out will be the Big News before the investor call on Thursday.

It may have to do with CPS. Did we sell em or what? Something is up.

that would make for some interesting scope and flow discussions

I agree Super.

Just wondering what the new bit will be for Thurs. There is always something big before these calls.

Also, our yields are off, so something will have to give.

Where did you hear about CPS being sold? If they are who would they be sold to?

Slowplay, nice to hear from you again. Hope your doing well.

1. Well, since we belong to a National Union which should have the interests of the larger pilot group in mind, for a start DALPA and most certainly ALPA should have at a minimum issued a statement condeming the act of replacing the MidWest pilots with another pilot group. I didn't see much about this issue in my last ALPA rag. I may have missed it.

Your question almost implies that DALPA and perhaps ALPA are powerless to have any influence over these issues. Perhaps you're correct, especially on a National level. This leads me to the question, If ALPA is going to sit idly by while our jobs are outsourced, why do we belong to a National Union? Would we be better served as a pilot group if we had a in house union? It's just difficult for me to sit by while an entire pilot group is lead off to slaughter.

2. You say I've had a lack of action. Do you know who I am? Do you know what I've done or been doing? Now, if you're implying that I have not run for office, you are correct. However, just because I've not been in a DALPA office, doesn't mean that I should not be represented.

If you go back and look at the video of the large pilot meeting (around 2000 pilots was the estimate) in ATL in 2005/2006, I was the second speaker from the audience. My question was regarding the MEC's position on the 76 seat aircraft and Section 1. I was the only non LEC member from SLC that traveled on his own dime to attend this meeting. I've spoken one on one with Lee three times regarding these issues. My SLC and now LAX reps, know who I am and know my position on these issues. I was not a voice in our Union the 2 1/2 years I was on furlough as it should be.

How else am I getting involved? Well, I'm sure that you may think this is a stretch, but if you pay close attention, this forum is a ground swell of a grass roots movement in our pilot group. Pilots talking about ideas and issues that effect us all. We all have varying opinions, but most have shown respect for one another as professionals.Many of the voices you hear on this forum will be the future leadership of our pilot group. Perhaps within DALPA, perhaps not. Our union has long turned their backs on many of the issues we're discussing. The thing I've realized over my time at Delta is that the DALPA is politics! The one thing our union will understand is that by taking a position that is politically untenable will have some harsh penalties. So I will say this, The further erosion of Section 1 and Scope is politically untenable. This is the foundation of the future.

Slowplay, I want to hear your vision for the future of our pilot group. I also want to know what you see as the direction of ALPA. Should we as members of ALPA be trying to make the profession better? Don't you think we should have a larger concern for the future of the young professional aviators in this industry? What legacy will we leave? Thanks for your input. It's important to hear all sides of this moving forward.

Respectfully,
TC