We are all one pilot group now. Furloughing out of seniority would be BAD for the group as a whole. Any furlough needs to take place in reverse seniority order off the combined list.

I agree. Due to the arbitrators ruling they will have to wait until post SOC to avoid the mess. I just don't think they can furlough in anticipation of SOC. The economic situation is fluid enough. Trying to guess SOC is playing with fire IMHO.

We are together now, but Carl does have a point. But, with that being said, we are together now. :D

I agree with you...and I am a DAL-N pilot who sits near the bottom end of the list. Delta cuts routes, NWA cuts routes....it is all the same now. We are one company now and all furloughs needs to be done out of the combined list. I would be rather furloughed for few years rather than live with a Republic-NWA type animosity for my entire career.

I agree. But, I admit, it's easy for me to say, because I'm not near the bottom of the list. Here's to no need for furloughs. (raising glass)

AND let's get rid of the RJ's, too. ;)

Carl;
My point is and was they are shifting around the flying now. All of this cross fleeting stuff and all. I am sure there will be more of it as time goes on and they find places they can make trips work. Example is all of the 88 flying out of NYC that is going to the 320.
I am sure that if you look at all of the shifting that has been going on, it is not dead equal on block hrs.

You call thinking out loud stupid. Fine.

My comment of Business as usual, is to arbitrate it. It is not a slap in your face. It is fact that more things have been arbitrated to a settlement by the North guys than the South guys. I think that business usual for any pilot on the combined list is going to change. For the better and the worse. That is just what happens.

As for furloughing prior to SOC. All I say to that is never say never. I am quite skeptical of DAL having the ability to weather this with out some staffing adjustments. If they do it is because we are just so darn inefficient. Good and bad for us.
What happens once we move bodies and jets and the economy is not roaring?

As for the comment about 2010 schedules. Being 450 fat for spring 2010 is well over a 400 pilot jump in the red from last figures. IMHO I can not see them adding the planned capacity back in that quick, for a lot of reasons.

Domestic is doing just fine. It is the North Atlantic that is killing us. If we see more price elasticity in the domestic market we will be quite red for the year. If they cannot raise these prices and sustain the new price points, there is no way they are going to dilute the market with more seats that they will have to sell at a cheaper price.

Carl. We are in this together. I know we will see differently on a few issues, and that is fine. As it stands now, it appears that you have gotten a lot of our block time. As I said they will adjust that as they need to to optimize the business model. It has nothing to do with us. As much as we like to think we are the reason for every action and reaction the company take, we are not.

I just glanced at the bottom 200 guys.

Approx 80 are from the north.

If we say there's about 20 on Medical Leave (couldn't tell what side they were on) then that leaves about 100 guys from the south.

I haven't thought about it long enough but would it really be that sloppy to furlough off the combined list prior to SOC?

You could basically shave 100 off both sides in seniority order and displace on each side of the fence to fill in the blanks.

After SOC it's very likely the guys that will make up the "new bottom 200" (the majority will be on the DC9 & M88) won't be going anywhere while all of the 744, 330's, 7ER's, 320's, 73N's are getting moved around. They won't have the bidding power to. They might be able to move around between the 9 & 88, but that doesn't sound like a full training course (well actually for some of these guys whining maybe it could! =)

I'm probably making it sound way simpler than it is and I know the trickle effect will be in play as far as effecting guys further up the list, but they could control that by only displacing just enough to cover the fleets effected by the furlough and then save the rest to fix after SOC. (The random pockets of junior folks on senior a/c could take care of some of this...most likely they will be getting displaced anyway as well as won't have seniority to do much moving around post SOC).

Just thinking out loud (bracing to get hit with the "stupid stick")....whatdaya think?

That is why any cuts would more than likely come from the combined list. At times it would serve to pit us against each other but at the end of the day Employee relations 101 would tell you not to do it by messing up a furlough. I do not see it happening out of the Arbitrated seniority list order.

If you read the postings on the DALnet from the Ops leaders they are choosing their words very very carefully... That is a change.

Delta owns the 900 series j;)ungle jets lets bring all of them back to mainline thus easing the pain of possible furloughs, just my 2 cents.

Hey I agree with that. I also know DAL owns the notes on a few of the CRJ series too!

Now would be a great time to get those back. Maybe we can use the no furlough clause we have to demand those jets to be flown my mainline pilots. :rolleyes: