Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
01-19-2012 | 04:11 PM
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01-19-2012 | 04:14 PM
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From: 767er Captain
01-19-2012 | 04:19 PM
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Exactly. We used to have "really good", and senior got "great". Now we have crap for all, and we're trying to develop a system where senior at least gets gets less crap, and staffing potentially improves. But junior is concerned senior has it too good, just because it doesn't suck for them quite as bad. It's a perversion of logic.
01-19-2012 | 04:28 PM
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I would agree. I was under the impression that when cleared to 350, it is an unrestricted clearance.
01-19-2012 | 04:33 PM
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From: Light Chop
Ha, I have the iPhone, til the wife confiscates it. But a day of flying is usually 10-11 points although i once got 9. So 2 3 days should be 66 points. So a 3 day and a 4 day would be like 77 if they're decent trips. So come week 3, you're still #1. You haven't crossed the 80 point threshold, so the way I read it you're still #1. So they could give you a 4 day. Now you cross 80 but you have a score of 120 and 60 hours of flying. Now youre probably done but it's the end of the month.
A raw score system gave you a day trip and moved you from guy #1 to #60. Next week after everyone flew you're #30. It's the next week til your close and could get a 3 day and be right back at #50. And may be done for the month.
But now you're number 1 for a while. And again youre not junior. You're just the lower guy with all weekends off so it's all about your seniority relative to others with all weekends off. not your seniority on the plane per se as it would be if we didn't have such a low reserves required on the weekends.
It's how we staff weekends that changed the equation and makes guy at 50% effectively the plug with all of the rights given to a plug... zero.
A raw score system gave you a day trip and moved you from guy #1 to #60. Next week after everyone flew you're #30. It's the next week til your close and could get a 3 day and be right back at #50. And may be done for the month.
But now you're number 1 for a while. And again youre not junior. You're just the lower guy with all weekends off so it's all about your seniority relative to others with all weekends off. not your seniority on the plane per se as it would be if we didn't have such a low reserves required on the weekends.
It's how we staff weekends that changed the equation and makes guy at 50% effectively the plug with all of the rights given to a plug... zero.
01-19-2012 | 04:41 PM
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OK, since you're on an iPhone, tell me this briefly: are you against a system with no RAW score at all, where all pilots get to bid high/low, based on seniority? That'll help me understand our differences better.
01-19-2012 | 04:55 PM
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Thanks FTB,
I understand your concern, but here are some points to consider:
1) Under the old system, we needed 30% Reserves. Under the new system, 15%. The new system is far, far more efficient, from the company's standpoint. They absolutely hated paying four guys guys CAP-5 hours, where two flew nothing, and the other two flew max. So now they can replace the four with two at 70 hours. Beautiful.
Unless you're a pilot.
Would you like 15% more pilots?
2) Under the old system, the hierarchy doesn't start at 50%, where 50% and below has to pick up "someone else's work". 50% and below might fly more, but everyone along the list had the option to go high, or low, for any given day, any given flying. That ordered all flying, from 1%, to 100%. IOW, everyone, in seniority order, could try to hide from the crap, or go high for the juicy stuff. The bottom 50% flew more, sure, but then again, under the new system, the bottom 50% of Reserves, or the bottom 15%, are unconcerned with Reserves at Delta, because they're busy flying at ASA and Pinnacle.
You have to look at the effects of the entire system on staffing, and the way it worked before, when things were right, rather than worry about about who gets to have maggots in their rice now that we're all in a camp.
I understand your concern, but here are some points to consider:
1) Under the old system, we needed 30% Reserves. Under the new system, 15%. The new system is far, far more efficient, from the company's standpoint. They absolutely hated paying four guys guys CAP-5 hours, where two flew nothing, and the other two flew max. So now they can replace the four with two at 70 hours. Beautiful.
Unless you're a pilot.
Would you like 15% more pilots?
2) Under the old system, the hierarchy doesn't start at 50%, where 50% and below has to pick up "someone else's work". 50% and below might fly more, but everyone along the list had the option to go high, or low, for any given day, any given flying. That ordered all flying, from 1%, to 100%. IOW, everyone, in seniority order, could try to hide from the crap, or go high for the juicy stuff. The bottom 50% flew more, sure, but then again, under the new system, the bottom 50% of Reserves, or the bottom 15%, are unconcerned with Reserves at Delta, because they're busy flying at ASA and Pinnacle.
You have to look at the effects of the entire system on staffing, and the way it worked before, when things were right, rather than worry about about who gets to have maggots in their rice now that we're all in a camp.
While changes to reserve certainly have had a impact on manning the big driver in the companies ability to go to 15 percent reserves is PBS not the reserve logic.
PBS smoothed out all the ups and downs in open time and eliminated the log jam at the start of every month. It allowed the company to start the month with virtually zero uncovered trips. The 15 percent in reserve manning lost was to a certain extent covered with a increase in regular lines.
01-19-2012 | 04:59 PM
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While changes to reserve certainly have had a impact on manning the big driver in the companies ability to go to 15 percent reserves is PBS not the reserve logic.
PBS smoothed out all the ups and downs in open time and eliminated the log jam at the start of every month. It allowed the company to start the month with virtually zero uncovered trips. The 15 percent in reserve manning lost was to a certain extent covered with a increase in regular lines.
PBS smoothed out all the ups and downs in open time and eliminated the log jam at the start of every month. It allowed the company to start the month with virtually zero uncovered trips. The 15 percent in reserve manning lost was to a certain extent covered with a increase in regular lines.
01-19-2012 | 05:05 PM
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BTW, the old system wasn't all about who got to avoid flying, but also who got to perform flying.
With the RAW system, it's almost impossible to fly much more, so we're conditioned to ask ourselves why the other guy isn't also getting screwed. IOW, since we're all going to get very close to 70 hrs, +/- 1 or 2, we don't want to fly, and we're thinking in terms of spreading the pain.
But under the old system, a senior commuter could opt to bid high, fly his butt off, and finish early. They RAW system ensures this can't happen: you have to commute in, but you can't necessarily escape skywards, if your score is higher than another pilot's, and only one trip is up for grabs. You're a prisoner, whether you're senior or junior.
The only benefit to the current system of being senior is that it lets you bid for days off.
We can do better, and large RAW buckets are only a small step in that direction. On that note, I'm going to bow out of this one.
With the RAW system, it's almost impossible to fly much more, so we're conditioned to ask ourselves why the other guy isn't also getting screwed. IOW, since we're all going to get very close to 70 hrs, +/- 1 or 2, we don't want to fly, and we're thinking in terms of spreading the pain.
But under the old system, a senior commuter could opt to bid high, fly his butt off, and finish early. They RAW system ensures this can't happen: you have to commute in, but you can't necessarily escape skywards, if your score is higher than another pilot's, and only one trip is up for grabs. You're a prisoner, whether you're senior or junior.
The only benefit to the current system of being senior is that it lets you bid for days off.
We can do better, and large RAW buckets are only a small step in that direction. On that note, I'm going to bow out of this one.
01-19-2012 | 05:11 PM
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I always cringe when policy changes are made and ALPA cheerleaders are shouting from the rooftops about another victory. Then a few weeks/months later people are scratching their heads saying in actual practice the policy was a fail and the company got a big win. History with this pilot leadership repeats itself again and again and again.................
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