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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1136262)
Whidby,
Just an opinion, but there is a wide disconnect within Delta about their pilots. To the network guy, we are a simple commodity. They'd price shop us with less discretion than they put towards buying spaghetti noodles at Kroger if they could. They just want cheap, heard them say "GoJets is the best ..." earlier this week. To flight operations management, we are the best, expected to know our stuff, help market the Company, something to take pride in, the cream of the crop. It boils down to what makes it easier to do their job. Flight Operations management expects us to be the best because that makes their job easier. Network just wants the cheapest because that makes their job easier. At the end of the day Network decides if we fly, which is why scope is absolutely critical. I don't want to imagine what the network guys say behind our back... Agree on FltOps Mgmt. It's a shame they don't have the clout in the Delta hierarchy to effectively back that sentiment up with results. Sounds like they get a lot of pushback from up higher... Cheers George |
Originally Posted by RCD73
(Post 1136251)
I completely understand and support your goal, however DAL management probably knows the players. I think they'd burst out laughing if a DAL A320 Capt threatened to go to Tiger. Jetstar is a LCC whipsaw for Qantas mainline. Their cadets pay for there own training.
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Originally Posted by georgetg
(Post 1136275)
Bar, no kidding, I heard the network guys say without missing a beat he prefers the MD90 over the 738 because it has lower pilot cost on comparable routes. This is in a briefing to a roomful of pilots...
I don't want to imagine what the network guys say behind our back... Agree on FltOps Mgmt. It's a shame they don't have the clout in the Delta hierarchy to effectively back that sentiment up with results. Sounds like they get a lot of pushback from up higher... Cheers George Yeah. Once in a LCA meeting at a subsidiary, a Delta manager walked in and heard complaining about a few things that were running on the edge of an incident or accident. His comment sent a cold chill up my spine: "We consider safety a given ...." That's the attitude they have to have to commoditize pilot services and outsource them. Once it accepted (and it has been accepted for a long time, the Buffalo crash excepted) that if you can get a guy through a check ride, his Captain, or the System, will save 'em. For the "rest of the story" this manager now manages the front desk a flight school. Quite a long fall from President of an airline with a larger fleet than Alaska's. The funny thing is, he has not changed: "The process had its challenges however this facilty was opened in Novemeber of 2009, allows Falcon Aviation Services to continue to grow while providing adequate service our customers expect." That's a direct cut paste quote including his inability to spell November. That's the quality of work that gets a manager a million dollar bonus in bankruptcy. |
Originally Posted by More Bacon
(Post 1136221)
Look at you, reading your daughter's text messages and pretending you know what that means.
You're still old. I guess that's to be expected...after all, you have to work longer due to DALPA giving up your pension and pay to cement its "constructive engagement" strategy with the company. Tsquare and I aren't on the same side of the ALPA debate either but a lot of discretion is in order here. Just making a big generalization here but it's probably the case that T has more experience than you or I, more seniority than you or I and more insurance... :D sorry T, that line is still funny. |
Originally Posted by acl65pilot
(Post 1136204)
Companies generally spit for two reasons, one they are at the top of their price point, or they expect it to go up.
With commentary like that, you'd be a shoo in to replace Jamie Baker at JP Morgan. :) Actually, your track record is a lot better than Jamie's $8 target on AA when they entered bankruptcy. |
Originally Posted by freightguy
(Post 1136272)
Oh no my friend.... I quoted in USD and I did not qoute max pay either. Here is a break down for you:
The following is Tiger salary. They get a base pay of SGD11,000 + SGD113 for every hour after the first 20. (Basic S$11000 but includes 20hrs flying. $113 per hour over 20 hrs). Tiger is just about to announce an increased pay rate, beacuse they are losing some pilots to other LCCs in the area. And Tiger Australia is a different subsidiary than Tiger Singapore. Tiger Singapore has been running pretty falwlessly so far. At the end of the day, we are still comparing ourselves to some LCC. Some bottom feeder LCC is still paying way more than what we're paying. DAL is nowhere close to the top in payscale for a global pilot. And Tiger is just an example. There are plenty others in the region which pays even better than them. NOW |
Originally Posted by More Bacon
(Post 1136221)
Look at you, reading your daughter's text messages and pretending you know what that means. :cool:
You're still old. I guess that's to be expected...after all, you have to work longer due to DALPA giving up your pension and pay to cement its "constructive engagement" strategy with the company. |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1136283)
George,
Yeah. Once in a LCA meeting at a subsidiary, a Delta manager walked in and heard complaining about a few things that were running on the edge of an incident or accident. His comment sent a cold chill up my spine: "We consider safety a given ...." That's the attitude they have to have to commoditize pilot services and outsource them. Once it accepted (and it has been accepted for a long time, the Buffalo crash excepted) that if you can get a guy through a check ride, his Captain, or the System, will save 'em. For the "rest of the story" this manager now manages the front desk a flight school. Quite a long fall from President of an airline with a larger fleet than Alaska's. "What a bunch of buffoons pilots are and they demand more pay?" That's my guess by the non flight ops mind you. Technology is the reason they think safety is a given. Inexperienced pilots who once struggled to fly a Beech 1900C now with the same amount of hours fly a E175 with no problems (ymmv). As long as the pilot could pass a cog test and has a personality they believe safety will be taught... unfortunately by the shocked LCA. When that gets degraded, AP ON at 500' and autolands. The problem is for a variety of reasons that won't last forever. |
Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1136313)
As long as the pilot could pass a cog test and has a personality they believe safety will be taught... unfortunately by the shocked LCA. When that gets degraded, AP ON at 500' and autolands. The problem is for a variety of reasons that won't last forever. Primary reasons we've had Pinnacle 410-it-dude, Colgan in Buffalo, and Air France. What occurs then is a total degradation in airmanship with the assumption that the technology would save them. |
Originally Posted by Whidbey
(Post 1136255)
I definitely think there is a bright future for Delta Air Lines, but the word is out (at least in the active duty military) that with respect to pay, it's a third or fourth choice. One great thing about Delta is the high quality of Captain you get to fly with. It's obvious that when they were hired, Delta was for the most part getting the cream of the crop. I agree that management probably doesn't care about turn over, but I do think this next contract is going to completely determine the quality of pilots we're able to attract heading into future hiring. Whidbey, Great Post. I am hearing the exact same thing from guys getting out of the military. I agree the current crop of DAL Captains is pretty awesome. Mostly all great guys, great Pilots and most buy the beer! But you are correct - they were hired when DAL was very, very high (first or second) on most guys preferred airline list. Now DAL is probably most guys 3rd or 4th choice ** - still not bad but when the hiring wave starts we may not get the best talent. Hopefully management will be aware of this and take steps, ie. improved compensation, to correct it. From guys getting out of my previous squadron FDX, SWA, and UPS are currently preferred over DAL. This is mostly based on a snapshot of the current industry and we all know how well that works out over 30 years but nonetheless, this is what I am hearing. Scoop |
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