Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1149957)

That is exactly the sort of scenario that constructive engagement is supposed to prevent.
We've held up our end. We'll see management's response shortly.

Originally Posted by Check Essential (Post 1149957)

That is exactly the sort of scenario that constructive engagement is supposed to prevent.
We've held up our end. We'll see management's response shortly.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1150061)

sailing- It's too bad that those ugly blue and red small planes that have started showing up in greater numbers the past few weeks make a good amount more than the pilots that staff our 34 largest aircraft make.

That had better be a major point to the NMB.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver (Post 1149960)

In other words... we'll see just how "constructive" it's been.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1150055)

You have to attempt to view it from a management standpoint. They have spent five years in a reeducation campaign with the other employees that Delta will only be able to pay industry standard wages. They are correct in their cost assumptions to an extent. This is perhaps the most brutal industry around on companies that let costs get out of line.
A pilot contract that is viewed as above the abstract they have created with the other employees will lead to big problems. After our 2001 contract they had to follow up with a 17 percent raise to the mechanics when things started to get ugly there.
I suspect they will be willing to put forth a contract with some impressive numbers in the out years. They will not put out anything near what I or most pilots expect in the short term. The collapse of talks at UAL and the 1113 action at AMR will leave the company thinking and serious raises for the pilots will put their pilot costs way to high and that they will have other costs with non union employee fallout. The package they put forth will be back loaded
while the package we want and deserve will have to be front loaded. I see the gap between the two as far to big to be bridged before we go to the NBM. The NMB has made it clear we can expect a very long process if we go that route.
Again this is going to be a long difficult contract with a lot of choices that have to be made. Don't start spending raises now. They may not come for 5 years.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1150055)

You have to attempt to view it from a management standpoint. They have spent five years in a reeducation campaign with the other employees that Delta will only be able to pay industry standard wages. They are correct in their cost assumptions to an extent. This is perhaps the most brutal industry around on companies that let costs get out of line.
A pilot contract that is viewed as above the abstract they have created with the other employees will lead to big problems. After our 2001 contract they had to follow up with a 17 percent raise to the mechanics when things started to get ugly there.
I suspect they will be willing to put forth a contract with some impressive numbers in the out years. They will not put out anything near what I or most pilots expect in the short term. The collapse of talks at UAL and the 1113 action at AMR will leave the company thinking and serious raises for the pilots will put their pilot costs way to high and that they will have other costs with non union employee fallout. The package they put forth will be back loaded while the package we want and deserve will have to be front loaded. I see the gap between the two as far to big to be bridged before we go to the NBM. The NMB has made it clear we can expect a very long process if we go that route.
Again this is going to be a long difficult contract with a lot of choices that have to be made. Don't start spending raises now. They may not come for 5 years.

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1150055)

You have to attempt to view it from a management standpoint. They have spent five years in a reeducation campaign with the other employees that Delta will only be able to pay industry standard wages. They are correct in their cost assumptions to an extent. This is perhaps the most brutal industry around on companies that let costs get out of line.
A pilot contract that is viewed as above the abstract they have created with the other employees will lead to big problems. After our 2001 contract they had to follow up with a 17 percent raise to the mechanics when things started to get ugly there.
I suspect they will be willing to put forth a contract with some impressive numbers in the out years. They will not put out anything near what I or most pilots expect in the short term. The collapse of talks at UAL and the 1113 action at AMR will leave the company thinking and serious raises for the pilots will put their pilot costs way to high and that they will have other costs with non union employee fallout. The package they put forth will be back loaded while the package we want and deserve will have to be front loaded. I see the gap between the two as far to big to be bridged before we go to the NBM. The NMB has made it clear we can expect a very long process if we go that route.
Again this is going to be a long difficult contract with a lot of choices that have to be made. Don't start spending raises now. They may not come for 5 years.

Originally Posted by Herman (Post 1150085)

Thanks Brother!