Haha yep I was after that, so tell him thank you

 

Ask those who told you that to show you an Agenda, or meeting notes. I believe you will find they do not exist.

Contract this to the NWA merger. How did those first meetings go? Was an agreement reached on seniority? Were those meetings reported? Was a merger eventually completed, despite our differences on seniority?

Having experienced the NWA merger, I will leave it to you to decide whether that merger could have been derailed on the basis of a failure to reach an instant agreement on seniority. I submit (with no proof other than the results) that the Delta MEC looked at NWA and saw an airline they wanted to merge with. It was inconceivable that an airline with similar (and bigger) equipment would not be merged with.

In contrast, ASA and Comair had nothing the Delta MEC wanted. Small jets that paid less and would be flown below their seniority ... why fight for that?

 

You guys just keep forgetting that DALPA does not make business decisions for management. we don't decide mergers. In the case of the NWA merger RA gave DALPA veto authority if we could not reach a prenuptial agreement on seniority. It was a throwaway item. He never intended to honor that promise. When we told him we could not reach a agreement he waited a few weeks and did the merger anyway.
When Delta not DALPA purchased ASA and Comair there was no intent ever on the part of Delta to merge the airlines. You can rest assured the Comair group looked at every available legal option for force a merger and could not find a attorney to even give them a remote hope of succeeding. That is why they went the route they did.
The giant mistake made by Comair was that they were so intent on trying to force there way onto the Delta seniority list that they skipped the logical first step. They should have filed for a single carrier determination with the NMB between themselves and ASA. There was legal precedent that virtually assured them of winning that issue that came from the AE filing. The failure to do so by the Comair group was huge in where they have ended up today.

 

Sailing,

So, what you are saying is ALPA left the fate of another thousand or so ASA pilots and the fates of more than a thousand soon to be furloughed Delta pilots in the hands of the Comair MEC Chairman? Because he is alleged to have made an impolitic demand 50% of Delta's flying got outsourced?

The problem with our MEC's revisionist history is that it makes no logical sense. Worse, it makes our MEC and our Chairmen in particular look like impotent fools (when I know they are not ... they are smart, very smart, men).

Better to simply state the truth, "hell no, nobody wanted it then and we don't want it now." Better to be honest and admit "we got what we wanted" is a whole lot more confidence inspiring than alleging "we tried and failed."

Without naming names, it is time to retire this gentleman's work from 2000. It does not serve the purpose of the Delta MEC, or the Delta pilots in our current time. Continuing these fabrications only causes cognitive dissonance that the DPA rationalizes by blaming a fabricated conflict of interest within ALPA. You do get that this blaming the Comair pilots for everything is what gives rise to the DPA, right?

----

I still like my statement to my yard guy: " I can not pay you $75 to mow my yard because Comair pilots might get Date of Hire." I tell my two year old "No more Ice Cream, if I gave you ice cream the Comair pilots might get Date of Hire" My wife tells me "No more sex tonight because ... ." If the NWA pilots couldn't get DOH, I don't think we had a whole hell of a lot to fear from Comair.

 

I submit to you ALPA's only reason for existence is to require management operate the airline with seniority list pilots. Without seniority list pilots, there is no ALPA.

 

Ok, One more time. DALPA could not merge ASA or Comair into our seniority list. They had no legal method or contractual method to force that issue. Only management could make that decision. Had management decided to merge the lists it would have been a done deal and would have been in accordance with ALPA merger policy.
If you think there were not discussions with management by DALPA on the issue you are mistaken. I can also tell you that management had zero intention of ever merging the airlines and would have fought to the death to avoid it. They would have been very aware of the power that would have given DALPA.
DALPA does not merge airlines. DALPA does not merge seniority lists. Both are controlled by management.

 

How much leverage does an NMB "STS" determination carry WRT to merger/acquisition/fragmentation/section 1 language?

I know the STS forced Republic to merger "accept" the Frontier/Midwest/Chataqua/Shuttle America/etc. pilot lists to be integrated....

 

I would be surprised at your absolutely predictable response, except I predicted it yesterday.

 

Airline is an antiquated term that does not reflect the current industry. We currently fly 100% of Delta Air Lines flights - what is the percentage of flights flown on the Delta Network (Sky Team + DCI + ALaska code shares + JVs)?

How are we doing?

Scoop

 

Sink r8, be careful what you ask for! Remember, Express was composed of formerly MAINLINE 737-200's, that we then took a huge PAY CUT, to keep, only because Mo'Ron threatened to sell them, just like he did the DC9's in 1993. So, yeah, we kept the airframes, but at a huge pay cut and a two year lock on if you bid Capt. on it.

Meanwhile, all those Mainline 737-200 Captains and F/O's, in CVG, ATL and DFW, were DISPLACED off of it, as it was put into Express in MCO. I was just about to bid Capt. on the 737 in CVG when that all went down, so I remember it well, and how I moved backwards in the right seat of the MD 11 for the next several years, as with every displacement bid those former 737 Capt.s come onto the right seat of the MD 11.

So if tomorrow, Richard says, "Hey, we want to start a new, Low Cost Airline in Orlando, and we are going to use our MD 88's and we are going to pay the Capt.s $100/hr..."

Would you (any of you) vote yes to that?

That's about what happened with Express and our 737-200's, in POS 96, which is why I voted NO. BUT, the Majority voted Yes, and we proved to Management that we are willing to fly Mainline airframes for less...