Really? When I got furloughed, and they hired like crazy for 50-seat flying, I could have sworn I felt like I was getting replaced.

I must have been confused.

Your're aboslutely right. I think some are off contract in 2017, the rest start going away in the next decade. In the meantime, we don't have to sweat those hundreds of non-replacing 50-seaters, because their thousands of pilots are not taking our jobs. Not really.

You been away from the NB fleet long?

I still don't see anything that shows why Delta is moving so fast on this. Getting more 70 seaters is not pressing enough for them, so where is the urgency. As ACL said, they probably need good leasing terms and won't get them with a contract in negotiations, so what do they need the capital for? It has been said over and over that they want to get the Debt down to $10B and if they are pushing for that, why do they want capital and more Debt even with good terms as they won't get down to that hard $10B number if they go on a spending spree.
Where is the urgency?

First, look what the 13 Bln in debt is. I bet that some of it is the rj 50 debt they may be trying to get rid of. IMO, 10 Bln is slightly below the leverage level that is ideal and getting to that level allows them to purchase a few large assets and new jets tht thy want.

What I said was, this contract is very important and there are many things they want to do within a new contract, but the pace and focus the company is exerting on these talks is unprecedented. I do not see the rj's or the 717/319's to be the main reason behind this focus. Make no mistake there are possible huge savings in getting out of RJ 50 leases but it is my guess that there is something bigger that they are after. Getting this agreement done allows them to proceed.

*What it is(could be multiple things) is a moving target depending on the rest of the industry.

It likely involves further consolidation. Keep in mind that doesn't imply Delta will be merging again. Rather, having your costs aligned(work groups merged, on one MX system, pilot contract knocked out, refinery bought, terminal/aircraft mods in place) allows multiple plans to be in place and approved so that they may act once the dominos fall. It could involve aquistion of aircraft, routes, gates, etc. I think what it is about, is management positioning Delta for the next round of consolidation. Whether it be AA/Us Air, AA/JB, JB/VA, etc.

Let's slow down and not get ahead of ourselves.

It's obvious the company is in a hurry on this...which is exactly why we shouldn't be.

I really hope DALPA is maximizing our leverage.

I did not read that as him being in a hurry.

From what I understand, the Reps are being deliberate, and are not in a rush for the sake of getting a deal done. It has to be the best deal we can get; now or five years from now for them to vote yes.

But, and correct me if I am wrong, there can still be a multi-million dollar verdict against ALPA with or without an assessment. :confused:

Didn't this very thing happen to the APA about 10 years ago?

Scoop

AMR's was for a job action. They paid it off in barging hits.

Johnso, RA has constantly stated that further consolidation is necessary and DAL wanted to be a player, so its not too far of a leap to see them positioning themselves to be a first mover once again.

I would also interject that, consolidation make not take the traditional form we have seen before.

The cheese is moving, and what is an option today, may not be viable in a few weeks/months. There are many options out there, and DAL will move when they feel it adds the biggest benefit to the airline.

Their push on the contract is totally unprecedented, and that should be a good litmus test. We need to see the final product to see how serious they truly are, but their actions are quite loud. It alone has made me keenly aware in the extraneous dots and not just in the US aviation industry. Watch what all of the players are saying.

Notice what EK said about AF and their desire to buy a stake last week? We as pilots need to pay attention to all of this. For our airline access to capital is key.

I posted this on another thread, but seems applicable here as well.

The last message from ALPA regarding this was dated March 13th:

------------------------

Brady v. ALPA

This lawsuit arose out of American’s purchase of TWA assets when TWA was in bankruptcy and facing the real possibility of going out of business. The TWA MEC was very supportive of the transaction because it meant good jobs at a strong carrier for the pilots. The MEC voted to waive the pilots’ contractual right to seniority arbitration; they agreed to this waiver because it was demanded by American as a condition for going forward with the transaction. The MEC received advice from ALPA advisors and independent advisors to waive the right to seniority arbitration in order to ensure that they got the jobs available at American.*

The lawsuit was filed in 2002 and went to trial in June of this year. It took so long to get to this point for several reasons. First, the lawsuit was dismissed by the district court on statute of limitations grounds and then returned to the district court when the court of appeals reversed the dismissal. Second, the plaintiffs hired and fired several sets of lawyers. Third, there was delay caused by dissension among the plaintiffs which resulted in Bud Bensel being removed as a named plaintiff.

The trial lasted about six weeks and a verdict was issued on July 13. The jury found that: (1) ALPA had violated its duty of fair representation; (2) As a result of this violation, “some” TWA pilots were harmed in an unspecified way.

The verdict is one step of a long legal process that has a long way to go. ALPA’s lawyers will be filing a motion to overturn the verdict and, probably, several other motions. They believe that the verdict is not supported by the evidence and is contrary to the applicable law.

There has been no process for determination of damages. Any such process would not even start until after ALPA’s motions are ruled upon. At that time, the judge would order a period of discovery (document production and depositions) to be followed by another trial with respect to the plaintiffs’ damage claims. At that proceeding the issues to be determined would include whether and to what extent damages may be ordered and for whom. Some are claiming that the damages will be “enormous.” There is no basis for this assertion. Any dollar amounts or descriptions of the amount of damages are pure, unsupported speculation.

At the conclusion of the damages trial, ALPA would have the right to appeal to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit. There is also the possibility of settlement discussions which could further delay or conclude the legal process.

Currently, ALPA has agreed to enter into mediation for a possible settlement. This is simply a “next step” in the process. As with any legal proceedings, a settlement that may be reached through mediation may be the best possible solution for both parties. It does not mean an agreement is pending or even expected.

If ALPA were required to cover damages, it has substantial insurance coverage precisely for this type of situation. There are assertions out there that are dead wrong when they say that ALPA’s insurance would not apply to this case.

ALPA has never assessed its membership to pay for litigation, awards, verdicts, or settlements. There is no reason to assume that it would do so in this case.