Details on Delta TA
10-12-2014 | 12:16 PM
#2801
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From: 757/767
That is the common phrase that is spun out by many passive, non confrontational, management buddy-buddy individuals. Some other common "lines" are:
1) Time-value
2) What are you willing to give up for that?
3) More money in your pockets
4) Keep your backpacks on
5) Wallstreet will not like that
6) We need to be sensitive to the other employee groups
7) The company will never pay us that
8) 4833 was a great achievement and raise
9) Ill take a single and a double anyday
The way you get 38% is by taking a little bit more of a risk when negotiating. You educate management, the public and the employee group that the pilots have not been restored, as of yet, and restoration is a must or else--->(put what you desire in here). The Union must be onboard with restoration, if they arent, then it will never happen.
Once we achieve restoration, then we can talk about 4 or 5 % raises going forward.
IT can be done.
TEN
1) Time-value
2) What are you willing to give up for that?
3) More money in your pockets
4) Keep your backpacks on
5) Wallstreet will not like that
6) We need to be sensitive to the other employee groups
7) The company will never pay us that
8) 4833 was a great achievement and raise
9) Ill take a single and a double anyday
The way you get 38% is by taking a little bit more of a risk when negotiating. You educate management, the public and the employee group that the pilots have not been restored, as of yet, and restoration is a must or else--->(put what you desire in here). The Union must be onboard with restoration, if they arent, then it will never happen.
Once we achieve restoration, then we can talk about 4 or 5 % raises going forward.
IT can be done.
TEN
You can continue saying "restoration" or you can attempt to determine our leverage and figure out what it might be worth.
10-12-2014 | 12:21 PM
#2802
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From: 7ERB
The public and management don't care if you are restored. The pilot group certainly does but "or else" isn't much of a strategy. I assume you are talking about a strike when you say "or else". A strike is a real possibility but there are a whole lot of steps between openers and a strike. If you come in saying "or else" you will get nowhere. APA proved that.
You can continue saying "restoration" or you can attempt to determine our leverage and figure out what it might be worth.
You can continue saying "restoration" or you can attempt to determine our leverage and figure out what it might be worth.
Unfortunately, a majority of this pilot group thinks like you; so getting anything other than a measly 4%-8% pay-raise will never happen.
Even with a 4-8% raise, you will feel guilty and you will want to give concessions.
Welcome to Delta!!! Another successful candidate and like-minder!
TEN
10-12-2014 | 12:23 PM
#2803
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From: 747-400 Captain
That "checklist" as you term it was made from the contract comparisons put out by DALPA. I started from the beginning and went through each category in order and determined who had the best section/category. I wrote the name of the airline that held the top category spot next to the category. I highlighted Delta in red every time we led in that section.
Since you're unable to refute the accuracy of any item in my "checklist", I guess you're left with attacking it as being "over-simplified".
Carl
10-12-2014 | 12:33 PM
#2804
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From: 757/767
The last I saw, our wages and salaries accounted for about 1.5 billion of an overall 2.5 billion dollar contract. A 38% increase in pay on day one would add 570 million in costs to Delta. Very reasonable in my opinion given the role we play and continue to play in achieving our massive profits.
You don't think DALPA is doing that? I think it's pretty clear they aren't going to use the tactics that you want but I think they are on track to do what you say aside from the 38% number since I have no idea what DALPA thinks we can get.
10-12-2014 | 12:36 PM
#2805
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From: 747-400 Captain
Yes. You asked the question, then said nobody had the "guns" to answer it. Which was interesting because I thought you French didn't like guns. 
That's true, but that's why you negotiate retroactive pay to recoup some or all of what was lost while management dragged their feet.
Afford what? Fighting for what you're worth and for what you know the company can easily afford?
You're behaving just like Alan Shore. My question is not a straw man because it's based on actual fact. The DALPA contract comparison clearly showed where Delta pilots lead the industry and where they do not. My question is: How many areas should Delta pilots lead?
I know you don't want to go there, but it's not because you think the question is "stoopid". It's because you're uncomfortable with the answer.
Carl
I know you don't want to go there, but it's not because you think the question is "stoopid". It's because you're uncomfortable with the answer.
Carl
10-12-2014 | 12:42 PM
#2806
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From: 757/767
You can continue to be TIMID, stick your head in the sand, make every excuse in the book not to be paid what you are worth and be a sheep. You are a hostage to management.
Unfortunately, a majority of this pilot group thinks like you; so getting anything other than a measly 4%-8% pay-raise will never happen.
Even with a 4-8% raise, you will feel guilty and you will want to give concessions.
Welcome to Delta!!! Another successful candidate and like-minder!
TEN
Unfortunately, a majority of this pilot group thinks like you; so getting anything other than a measly 4%-8% pay-raise will never happen.
Even with a 4-8% raise, you will feel guilty and you will want to give concessions.
Welcome to Delta!!! Another successful candidate and like-minder!
TEN
* It's slightly better than no leverage because it means something to the pilot group. I think "Restoration" can serve as a unity builder if the company stonewalls.
10-12-2014 | 12:46 PM
#2807
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From: 747-400 Captain
10-12-2014 | 12:53 PM
#2808
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From: 7ERB
Where have I said anything you just posted? I haven't even said we can't get whatever you think restoration is. What I have said is I believe saying "restoration" gives you very little* leverage. I've been ridiculed for saying that but seldom has it been argued against with anything but character attacks.
* It's slightly better than no leverage because it means something to the pilot group. I think "Restoration" can serve as a unity builder if the company stonewalls.
* It's slightly better than no leverage because it means something to the pilot group. I think "Restoration" can serve as a unity builder if the company stonewalls.
There will always be a reason not to pay us what we are worth..But that is just a tool used against us.
By the way, EBOLA is on the table now. DO you think we should furlough 500 guys and take a ten percent pay-cut to help out RA? I think we should do it so we can increase our advantage against AA/UA. It will also show Wallstreet we care for the company.
TEN
Continue on your agenda. Im done.
10-12-2014 | 12:58 PM
#2809
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From: 747-400 Captain
You're right about management, but you're in no position to speak on behalf of "the public."
Look Oberon, "or else" is not a strategy, it is a tactic. In fact, it is the ultimate tactic. If you can't make a credible threat to strike if you don't get what's reasonable, then you are pretending to be a union.
That's not what APA proved Oberon. What APA proved is that the NMB won't release you if you demand full restoration on day one while your company is losing vast amounts of money. The strike option as the final tactic has to be in the forefront of everyone's mind all the way through negotiations. Spirit proved that.
Carl
Look Oberon, "or else" is not a strategy, it is a tactic. In fact, it is the ultimate tactic. If you can't make a credible threat to strike if you don't get what's reasonable, then you are pretending to be a union.
Carl
10-12-2014 | 01:11 PM
#2810
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From: 747-400 Captain
Carl
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