tsquare

10 hours sleep is NOT a CDO. Not even close. Try again. And if I read that right, it would be worth 10:30 to me.

tsquare

So in other words, just trust Jerry.


And I am all for pay banding. It is a great step toward rational pay rates.

Sink r8

At least you're consistently dead wrong on this issue. Is there anything you won't sacrifice in your quest for SPOP (special pay for old pilots)?

tsquare

Oh no... I'm right. I am just not in the majority, and I have to go along with it because I have no choice. But I can still try to enlighten enough to change it. I'll be sure to post the number of paycuts that occur when the whales go away to prove my point.

vprMatrix

Had ALPA not backed down and allowed SDPs the negotiated language would have allowed them to pay only 7.5 hours and, the amount above block would have been pay no credit so they could have been squeezed into a lot nasty places during PBS line construction.

Oberon

That is about the best case scenario you could have. With 117 rules and Delta's bank structure you could do a flight as long as about 2:15 block. That will be about a 1:35 flight time in the busier hubs and 1:45 in the less busy hubs. That has the potential to really suck. This could be mitigated by mandating four hours at the hotel.

CDOs would eliminate 30 hour layovers at smaller cities with limited flights. This was a good thing at my old company because we didn't get paid for 30 hour overnights and taking them out of the general pairing population increased efficiency (days off). The down side at my old company was CDOs didn't pay well either.

At Delta CDOs would be kind of a wash. With the right language you wouldn't have any real ball-breakers and they would pay well so they would go to people who actually wanted to fly them, but it's my understanding that we will get paid 5:15 for 30 hour overnights under the 117 LOA anyway.

I can see both sides of the argument. I don't find CDOs particularly fatiguing but I live 25 minutes from where I work and would be able to (and have in the past) nap when I got home. I know others find CDOs terribly fatiguing. It seems the majority of Delta pilots don't like them so it's just as well we don't have them.

Two man all-nighters are my nemesis because I can't sleep during the day unless I'm already tired. I'd love to see these augmented. Maybe a caffeine stipend?

Sink r8

You keep telling yourself that.

I think you've been shown the weakness of your argument from a number of different perspectives, from a wide spectrum of posters. LBP is the mother of all concessions, and the ultimate end of the road that Pay Banding paves for us.

I agree with your perspective about Jerry's internet antics. But just because he's getting selectively deepthroated from someone on the MEC, and has a strange way of selectively leaking afterwards (there is a disgusting metaphor for you)... and just because he failed to say a peep on CDO's... and just because he can't prove pay banding is on the table... doesn't mean he wrong about the impact of pay banding. I completely agree with him that, hypothetically, pay banding would be a large, punitive and unnecessary concession.

Then there is the guy trying get pay banding AND vacation sellbacks on the agenda, and many posters think he "wrote a good letter".

I'm trying to imagine the sort of personal trauma, or masochism, that's motivating some of us to try to give back more. I can't quite do it.

I tend to think of myself as a reasonable person, and I've argued against those who have irrational expectations in a future contract, but I'm really, really struggling to understand how people are trying to rationalize concessions. If a Delta pilot didn't get properly breast-fed, or they have to cry themselves softly to sleep at night, I would encourage them to seek positive remedies, like professional help, or maybe even something harmless like sucking their thumb. But please, for god's sake, not bending over in front of their boss.

Sink r8

Yes, squeezing into nasty places. That's precisely how it would feel to Reserves, when the original recipient would strangely fall ill at an inopportune time.

Oberon

That was the biggest problem with the proposed language. CDOs need to be segregated from the rest of the pairing pool, limited to three in a row, and paid accordingly. If they were treated like every other trip one would pay 10:30, two would pay 15:45, and three would pay 21:00.

There isn't really a good reason to do this though because you would create a new class of inefficient (to the company) pilots and wouldn't really help schedule integrity. There's an argument that they would actually hurt schedule integrity.

If the company wants CDOs to make pilots more efficient we are probably better off without them. Random CDOs on a schedule could really screw up circadian rhythms.

Scoop

Yes but now we will have 5:15 per day so if we still have many 30 hour layovers they will all of a sudden be a lot more desirable. What paid 10:30 a few years ago, and now pays 13:30, will pay 15:45 in November.

One of the main reasons for pushing the CDOs was it would minimize the 30+ hour layovers and now we will paid for those layovers.

Boy did we dodge a bullet on that one.

Scoop