View Poll Results: Who is the most desperate to get a TA?
DAL
58
47.93%
DALPA/C44
55
45.45%
Pilots
8
6.61%
Voters: 121. You may not vote on this poll
Poll: Who wanted a TA more?
09-10-2015 | 08:03 PM
#91
Runs with scissors
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 7,847
Likes: 0
From: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Truth is, they could have doubled the amount of sick hours we get, the point of the program and outside vendor was to make sure we can't use it.
It's like the top end pay rate, it's the primary focus of dalpa to show what they can do vs united and FedEx but whereas 15% and 70% of their respective fleets get paid that only (soon) 2% of our fleet is to end.
What's the point in sick leave and top end pay if you can't use it?
(Well, other than you, you can use it timbo, but the rest of us...
)
It's like the top end pay rate, it's the primary focus of dalpa to show what they can do vs united and FedEx but whereas 15% and 70% of their respective fleets get paid that only (soon) 2% of our fleet is to end.
What's the point in sick leave and top end pay if you can't use it?
(Well, other than you, you can use it timbo, but the rest of us...
)Rocky Mountain Tool Bag is a Management Wannabe, he will stand for nothing, except further capitulation in exchange for more cost of living raises, witness the 4 years of 3% raises, with one 8% in the middle, that this TA would have brought us.
Under his command we will NEVER begin to restore this profession, he has accepted bankruptcy pay and benefits as the 'new normal' at a time of historic earnings.
Brilliant strategy there...
09-10-2015 | 08:09 PM
#92
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
A note from a doctor is exponentially more complicated? A limited medical release after you have used more than twice the average sick leave of your peers is exponentially more complicated?
Either way, the answer to the question "How much sick leave would you have lost under the TA?" is still "zero." Timbo was just being hysterical as often happens here.
Either way, the answer to the question "How much sick leave would you have lost under the TA?" is still "zero." Timbo was just being hysterical as often happens here.
Yes, thank you for backing me up about sick leave "usage" becoming exponentially more complicated under the FAILED TA2015.
We agree then. Good job.
Note: I use, on average, 40 hours of sick leave per year since hired. However, I will support my fellow pilots who, for whatever reason, need to use more. THAT is the point.
09-10-2015 | 08:17 PM
#93
Thread Starter
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
It absolutely can be. Yes. Going to a QHCP is a pain for me.
Especially if your pay is denied and you're working with a QHCP certificate to the DHS versus the CPO then it's exponentially more complicated. I mean what if you can replicate the issue to the doctor but you surely couldn't fly? It'll get complicated.
09-10-2015 | 08:19 PM
#94
Thread Starter
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
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From: Light Chop
Hey, you know I'm using that top end pay rate to buy your beer, and I'm not talking about that Old Milwaukee crap, but only the good stuff!
Rocky Mountain Tool Bag is a Management Wannabe, he will stand for nothing, except further capitulation in exchange for more cost of living raises, witness the 4 years of 3% raises, with one 8% in the middle, that this TA would have brought us.
Under his command we will NEVER begin to restore this profession, he has accepted bankruptcy pay and benefits as the 'new normal' at a time of historic earnings.
Brilliant strategy there...
Rocky Mountain Tool Bag is a Management Wannabe, he will stand for nothing, except further capitulation in exchange for more cost of living raises, witness the 4 years of 3% raises, with one 8% in the middle, that this TA would have brought us.
Under his command we will NEVER begin to restore this profession, he has accepted bankruptcy pay and benefits as the 'new normal' at a time of historic earnings.
Brilliant strategy there...
09-10-2015 | 08:29 PM
#95
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
It absolutely can be. Yes. Going to a QHCP is a pain for me.
Especially if your pay is denied and you're working with a QHCP certificate to the DHS versus the CPO then it's exponentially more complicated. I mean what if you can replicate the issue to the doctor but you surely couldn't fly? It'll get complicated.
Especially if your pay is denied and you're working with a QHCP certificate to the DHS versus the CPO then it's exponentially more complicated. I mean what if you can replicate the issue to the doctor but you surely couldn't fly? It'll get complicated.
Have you ever had your sick leave pay denied? The standard for sick would not have changed. If you are getting paid now, you would have gotten paid under the TA--just 8% more.
09-10-2015 | 08:35 PM
#96
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,457
Likes: 0
From: LAX ERA
As I said (and ignored earlier) no P2P guy could tell me the mechanics of how all this was going to work.
09-10-2015 | 08:50 PM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
How does it stop abuse?
09-10-2015 | 09:02 PM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,844
Likes: 0
From: 765-A
Well that right there puts it in a nutshell. When asked to make a hard decision about what you are going to do about staffing, you punt and go on the attack. Please tell me, with all your infinite wisdom, that you understand that if staffing problems are your leverage, you have to do something about their staffing problems in order to use that leverage. You can't say to them that you have leverage over staffing and then tell them you won't do a thing about it.
So instead of making a hard choice, you take the coward's way out and simply sit back and criticize the choices that others were forced to make.
This is exactly the point I was making before. Leadership is about making hard choices. You think there is some world where you walk into a room and make your contract demands and management simply nods their heads and signs the paper. That world doesn't exist, it never existed, and it will never exist. So if you ever want a contract, you need to get back to the real world. Your sanctimonious crap is just sanctimonious crap. I have more time flying Delta jets around than you do so I really don't need a lecture about "flying the line". What a bunch of crap.
If you examine the cases of US Airways pilots in their merger and the United pilots in their merger you will see the contrast in leadership and results. The US Airways pilots took the easy, cowardly way and simply sat on straight date of hire. They never had to answer for making tough choices to their pilots but in the end they screwed them over by making themselves irrelevant to their seniority integration.
The United MEC took a different path. Instead of sticking on an unreasonable position like straight date of hire, they made the tough choice to go for a hybrid list. The webboard jockeys, just like you, criticized them for being surrender monkeys and weaklings and I'm sure for "not flying the line". In the end, the seniority list was built around the ideas of the United pilots and they benefited from that greatly. They were lucky that the webboard crowd was ignored.
That is what the real world is about. Making tough choices in an imperfect world. Guys like you get to ride above that by standing back and throwing rocks at people that get in there and make those tough choices. Well bully for you. I know you think you are tough but I see you as weak; too weak to make the tough choices. So maybe you should try to put your big boy pants on and actually get in and make some of those choices. I mean, you say it's easy, so you should have this all figured out in a jiffy. By the way, I prefer to work only on Tuesday so see if you can get that fixed up for me.
So instead of making a hard choice, you take the coward's way out and simply sit back and criticize the choices that others were forced to make.
This is exactly the point I was making before. Leadership is about making hard choices. You think there is some world where you walk into a room and make your contract demands and management simply nods their heads and signs the paper. That world doesn't exist, it never existed, and it will never exist. So if you ever want a contract, you need to get back to the real world. Your sanctimonious crap is just sanctimonious crap. I have more time flying Delta jets around than you do so I really don't need a lecture about "flying the line". What a bunch of crap.
If you examine the cases of US Airways pilots in their merger and the United pilots in their merger you will see the contrast in leadership and results. The US Airways pilots took the easy, cowardly way and simply sat on straight date of hire. They never had to answer for making tough choices to their pilots but in the end they screwed them over by making themselves irrelevant to their seniority integration.
The United MEC took a different path. Instead of sticking on an unreasonable position like straight date of hire, they made the tough choice to go for a hybrid list. The webboard jockeys, just like you, criticized them for being surrender monkeys and weaklings and I'm sure for "not flying the line". In the end, the seniority list was built around the ideas of the United pilots and they benefited from that greatly. They were lucky that the webboard crowd was ignored.
That is what the real world is about. Making tough choices in an imperfect world. Guys like you get to ride above that by standing back and throwing rocks at people that get in there and make those tough choices. Well bully for you. I know you think you are tough but I see you as weak; too weak to make the tough choices. So maybe you should try to put your big boy pants on and actually get in and make some of those choices. I mean, you say it's easy, so you should have this all figured out in a jiffy. By the way, I prefer to work only on Tuesday so see if you can get that fixed up for me.
Beanie,
You don't know how to click on links, huh?
If you look at the discussion on the link I posted, and the discussions we've had on APC since the TA came out, you would see that people have made several suggestions as to how to alleviate the company's staffing problem. Off the top of my head, some of these included:
1.) A sick leave payoff plan, like the kind UPS has.
2.) Being able to fly while on vacation after the PCS run.
3.) Allowing more vacation buy back.
4.) A captain bonus plan.
5.) Increased captain pay.
6.) Increased retirement funding incentives.
(The key though, has always been that we wanted to be paid, monetarily, or in other ways, for the help.)
If you had taken the time to look at the various discussions, you would have seen, I didn't punt a
thing. I asked you to look around, research, read, and stop underestimating your constituents. So, either you couldn't figure out how to open a link, you didn't know how to search a forum, or your didn't care to read the ideas that some pretty smart people had come up with on here. Since you seem to be content to be so aloof, you don't get to tell me anything about leadership, or making hard choices. If you can't be bothered to listen to, or to find anything about those you are leading, or even to interpret a contract survey, then you aren't really a good leader, are you?
Hopefully, you don't have to worry about the responsibilities of that "leadership" position anymore. You've been on here posting a lot more recently, so it seems like you don't -- and that's good.
Welcome back to increasing your time flying Delta jets. It's a great job.
Last edited by newKnow; 09-10-2015 at 09:24 PM.
09-11-2015 | 12:56 AM
#99
Thread Starter
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
How do you get out of bed in the morning in such a scary and difficult world? Learn not to be so scared. It's empowering!
Have you ever had your sick leave pay denied? The standard for sick would not have changed. If you are getting paid now, you would have gotten paid under the TA--just 8% more.
Have you ever had your sick leave pay denied? The standard for sick would not have changed. If you are getting paid now, you would have gotten paid under the TA--just 8% more.
It's a concession.
Just like scope and work rules.
In fact if its not a concession then let's do this, let's just return TA 2015 with everything status quo, including ps, but the same pay rate tables.
The company should be all for it, right? After all, it's not like we had any concessions, right?
09-11-2015 | 01:56 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,543
Likes: 509
Rolling over for a COLA contract with interwoven QOL concessions is for those who are afraid to seek what the market will bear for their skills and professionalism. On the other hand, those who know the true value of their profession get out of bed, put their feet on the ground and stand up in the morning. It absolutely is empowering. I'm so glad 65% of my union brothers feel the same way.
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