Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley

Rocky,
Please, why doesn't C2012 curb alleged abuse? Somewhere in the back of your head, isn't there a little voice saying, "Rocky, they want to increase productivity".
If the change of policy is so small, how is it going to curb abuse?

Hey now

Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley

The sick leave problem can be fixed without further intrusion on my privacy, dignity and down right feeling of distrust that I feel. I just turned down a greenslip because I'm sick on my off days! Whether it's a bank or incentives, go that route. I don't believe there will be an end to the crusade once you let the camel's nose under the tent. The last time I needed a doctor's note was the 5th grade

Originally Posted by RockyMtMadDog

That anecdote is kind of irrelevant to the point. It just shows that you don't fly when you are sick. The company simply does not want you to call in sick when you are well. See the diff? As for the Dr note, you already need one now under the right conditions. The changes would have prevented you from voluntarily supplying one before you reached a threshold.

Originally Posted by RockyMtMadDog

The quote I heard at the road show was that the "alleged" patter of abuse was so evident, that were the company trying to accuse us of a job action, the charts would have been Exhibit 1. And it was up something like 35% since 2012 with no corresponding reason (age differences, 117 etc would not account for this big of a change). Just reporting the arguments that were made, and they were compelling.

Originally Posted by RockyMtMadDog

Hank

Based on the road show info, the voluntary verification bit them, because in their view, pilots were keeping a "bank" of up to 100 hours of unverified SL, and as the end of the sick leave year approached, they were seeing HUGE spikes that could not be explained by anything other than abuse (management's view).

Originally Posted by RockyMtMadDog

That anecdote is kind of irrelevant to the point. It just shows that you don't fly when you are sick. The company simply does not want you to call in sick when you are well. Most guys don't. A minority do, and it hurts us all. See the diff? As for the Dr note, you already need one now under the right conditions. The changes would have prevented you from voluntarily supplying one before you reached a threshold.

Originally Posted by Bananie

Okay, I guess we will see how the staffing issue plays out. They got really behind because they delayed hiring for the 717's. Now the 717's are almost done arriving and the 321's and 737-900's are going to be mostly replacements for other aircraft, with some growth. They still have to hire for some attrition and some growth, but mainline domestic block hours have gone up about 25% in the last two years. That is not going to continue. Now that we rejected the E-190's, Delta has told the MEC that they are going to get the rest of the 76 seaters that they are allowed and are pulling 50 seaters out of the desert. I guess that is a big victory for the "No" crowd but it doesn't seem that way to me.

Bartels has a long history of overplaying his hand. Go back and read his lengthy resume from his run at MEC Chairman. Find one thing in there that resulted in any type of gains for pilots. The only accomplishments he can name are changing internal processes. Wow, Policy Manual man strikes again.

He micromanaged his MEC during Chapter 11 and brought home a bankruptcy contract so bad it was a negative factor in the seniority integration. He overplayed his hand in January/February 2008 and cost his pilots $200 million. He over estimated his leverage in April 2008 and got left out in the cold when he found out that management really would move on without him. He played the same over hyped rhetoric game during the seniority arbitration and accomplished none of his goals. In fact, his merger committee was so hog tied by Bartels that they walked out of mediation because they had no latitude to participate in a meaningful fashion. It is ironic that part of Bartels hold on pilots is convincing NWA pilots that they were screwed in the merger when in fact he was the one that screwed them.

He has never been a part of any successful negotiation ever in his entire ALPA career, but has been supremely successful in character assassination and scapegoating his fellow union reps. Ask McClain, Dollaway, Lazarowicz, and now Donatelli and the negotiators. All are charter members of the Bartels Back Stabbing club.

You want transparency, but only when it follows your narrow agenda. There are two sides to the transparency coin and this is my side. Deal with it.

It is pretty simple. Anderson told us what would happen if we rejected this deal. The "No" crowd told him to go take a hike. Now he is doing exactly what he said he would do. He is not treating you like petulant children. It's just he's not going to waste time with a bunch of people running around conducting a circular firing squad. He's got a business to run and holding pilots' hands is not on his agenda. The "No" crowd wanted this and now they've got it. Quit trying to dream up lame excuses as to why you have management over a barrel. You don't. So just own your "No" and move on. Sometime in 2017 or 2018, or later, we will find out if you made the right choice.

Our leverage was working with management as a trusted business partner to help them accomplish their business plan. Bartels broke that relationship and now we have no leverage. We are already 10% ahead of the industry and will just have to wait until we are 10% behind and then we will get a new deal. I thought that is what you wanted, so quit trying to pretend that there is something else there.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Here's where you Moak disciples go off the rails. This "pattern of abuse" was obviously shown to the administration during negotiations. You guys accept it as fact and then offer fixes to management. I would have done the following:

1. Remind management that this is Section 6 negotiations
2. As such, your charts and data are meaningless BS
3. Remind management that the sick leave section you now hate was instituted at YOUR DEMAND during C2012
4. As such, we're not interested in changing something in which you've shown yourself to be so fickle
5. If it goes to the NMB, show the NMB point 3 and 4
6. If management tries to exhibit as evidence to the NMB increased sick leave usage to be abuse, show data on number of pilots terminated for sick leave abuse

NEXT!

Carl