Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
04-15-2017, 07:52 AM
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Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: CaptFo
Posts: 997
Originally Posted by JesuitValen
Abuse of regional pilots? Have you seen what Delta did to it's mainline pilots? You're at work, youre there for abuse in exchange for a paycheck, and you can leave. You want Endeavor to get even better? Start leaving for an airline with a flow, you can always come back. Delta will choose to ignore endeavors further complaints as long as attrition is low (surprisingly low) and classes are half full or full.
Pilots have poured in here for the DGI, and there's only a promise with no contractual enforcement. You think you deserve more (and God bless) but you think you're deal at Endeavor is better than the American guys or you'd have left. All the brave pilots who were willing to leave for better opportunities and made life better for everyone at Endeavor by their choice and followthrough are gone. There's no one here to bail this pilot group out, except for the 3 or 4 guys a month going to United and American.
So, if it's that bad, leave. Otherwise, you made a choice to come here, try and make it better by getting those retention bonuses converted and making Endeavor and Delta put that DGI into the contract so they don't welch later. You obviously don't want a flow badly and staples are illegal. So complain about something more productive, like hot dogs coming in 8s and buns in 10...
Pilots have poured in here for the DGI, and there's only a promise with no contractual enforcement. You think you deserve more (and God bless) but you think you're deal at Endeavor is better than the American guys or you'd have left. All the brave pilots who were willing to leave for better opportunities and made life better for everyone at Endeavor by their choice and followthrough are gone. There's no one here to bail this pilot group out, except for the 3 or 4 guys a month going to United and American.
So, if it's that bad, leave. Otherwise, you made a choice to come here, try and make it better by getting those retention bonuses converted and making Endeavor and Delta put that DGI into the contract so they don't welch later. You obviously don't want a flow badly and staples are illegal. So complain about something more productive, like hot dogs coming in 8s and buns in 10...
04-15-2017, 08:20 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Inverted
Posts: 402
So here's a pipe dream but hear me out..
Why wouldn't bringing all the flying in house via a fence work?
Park all of the 200s once the C-series arrive. All 900, E170/75s come in house and they slowly dismantle regional flying and create a pilot fence. I'll explain, there's two phases to creating this fence.
1: The initial launch and staffing of it.
2: The new hire program.
So when I mean fence I mean all of the regional type flying becomes the entry level of Delta. You must operate for at least two years as a captain in the fence program. Then you can bid out to the mainline fleet as we know it today. The encentive to bid out is pay. Make it worthwhile to leave the fleet so people do, or put it in the contact you have to.
So the hard part is staffing it at first, I think we do this with the current Endeavor pilots. Via a quick flow that eliminates the staple talk, new employee numbers, new seniority numbers and new pay scales. We then staff this fenced fleet of Delta until the clock starts for folks to bid out.
Then the wheel starts turned leading us to phase 2: new hires.
All new hires at Delta are hired in as an FO for the fenced fleet. They then work there way up to captain, maybe a year or two, then 2 years as a captain, then bid out to mainline fleet.
I know there are holes to this, but one thing it eliminates is 12 year CA pay for flying a 200. No one would be making more than year 4 CA pay to fly regional aircraft. So therefore you've kept the staffing costs down.
I know the F word is in there but at some point mass movement like this would require that. So it's an achilles heel to this.
Thoughts?
Why wouldn't bringing all the flying in house via a fence work?
Park all of the 200s once the C-series arrive. All 900, E170/75s come in house and they slowly dismantle regional flying and create a pilot fence. I'll explain, there's two phases to creating this fence.
1: The initial launch and staffing of it.
2: The new hire program.
So when I mean fence I mean all of the regional type flying becomes the entry level of Delta. You must operate for at least two years as a captain in the fence program. Then you can bid out to the mainline fleet as we know it today. The encentive to bid out is pay. Make it worthwhile to leave the fleet so people do, or put it in the contact you have to.
So the hard part is staffing it at first, I think we do this with the current Endeavor pilots. Via a quick flow that eliminates the staple talk, new employee numbers, new seniority numbers and new pay scales. We then staff this fenced fleet of Delta until the clock starts for folks to bid out.
Then the wheel starts turned leading us to phase 2: new hires.
All new hires at Delta are hired in as an FO for the fenced fleet. They then work there way up to captain, maybe a year or two, then 2 years as a captain, then bid out to mainline fleet.
I know there are holes to this, but one thing it eliminates is 12 year CA pay for flying a 200. No one would be making more than year 4 CA pay to fly regional aircraft. So therefore you've kept the staffing costs down.
I know the F word is in there but at some point mass movement like this would require that. So it's an achilles heel to this.
Thoughts?
04-15-2017, 08:27 AM
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Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 471
Originally Posted by JesuitValen
Abuse of regional pilots? Have you seen what Delta did to it's mainline pilots? You're at work, youre there for abuse in exchange for a paycheck, and you can leave. You want Endeavor to get even better? Start leaving for an airline with a flow, you can always come back. Delta will choose to ignore endeavors further complaints as long as attrition is low (surprisingly low) and classes are half full or full.
Pilots have poured in here for the DGI, and there's only a promise with no contractual enforcement. You think you deserve more (and God bless) but you think you're deal at Endeavor is better than the American guys or you'd have left. All the brave pilots who were willing to leave for better opportunities and made life better for everyone at Endeavor by their choice and followthrough are gone. There's no one here to bail this pilot group out, except for the 3 or 4 guys a month going to United and American.
So, if it's that bad, leave. Otherwise, you made a choice to come here, try and make it better by getting those retention bonuses converted and making Endeavor and Delta put that DGI into the contract so they don't welch later. You obviously don't want a flow badly and staples are illegal. So complain about something more productive, like hot dogs coming in 8s and buns in 10...
Pilots have poured in here for the DGI, and there's only a promise with no contractual enforcement. You think you deserve more (and God bless) but you think you're deal at Endeavor is better than the American guys or you'd have left. All the brave pilots who were willing to leave for better opportunities and made life better for everyone at Endeavor by their choice and followthrough are gone. There's no one here to bail this pilot group out, except for the 3 or 4 guys a month going to United and American.
So, if it's that bad, leave. Otherwise, you made a choice to come here, try and make it better by getting those retention bonuses converted and making Endeavor and Delta put that DGI into the contract so they don't welch later. You obviously don't want a flow badly and staples are illegal. So complain about something more productive, like hot dogs coming in 8s and buns in 10...
04-15-2017, 08:27 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 480
Originally Posted by HeyOneTaco
So here's a pipe dream but hear me out..
Why wouldn't bringing all the flying in house via a fence work?
Park all of the 200s once the C-series arrive. All 900, E170/75s come in house and they slowly dismantle regional flying and create a pilot fence. I'll explain, there's two phases to creating this fence.
1: The initial launch and staffing of it.
2: The new hire program.
So when I mean fence I mean all of the regional type flying becomes the entry level of Delta. You must operate for at least two years as a captain in the fence program. Then you can bid out to the mainline fleet as we know it today. The encentive to bid out is pay. Make it worthwhile to leave the fleet so people do, or put it in the contact you have to.
So the hard part is staffing it at first, I think we do this with the current Endeavor pilots. Via a quick flow that eliminates the staple talk, new employee numbers, new seniority numbers and new pay scales. We then staff this fenced fleet of Delta until the clock starts for folks to bid out.
Then the wheel starts turned leading us to phase 2: new hires.
All new hires at Delta are hired in as an FO for the fenced fleet. They then work there way up to captain, maybe a year or two, then 2 years as a captain, then bid out to mainline fleet.
I know there are holes to this, but one thing it eliminates is 12 year CA pay for flying a 200. No one would be making more than year 4 CA pay to fly regional aircraft. So therefore you've kept the staffing costs down.
Thoughts?
Why wouldn't bringing all the flying in house via a fence work?
Park all of the 200s once the C-series arrive. All 900, E170/75s come in house and they slowly dismantle regional flying and create a pilot fence. I'll explain, there's two phases to creating this fence.
1: The initial launch and staffing of it.
2: The new hire program.
So when I mean fence I mean all of the regional type flying becomes the entry level of Delta. You must operate for at least two years as a captain in the fence program. Then you can bid out to the mainline fleet as we know it today. The encentive to bid out is pay. Make it worthwhile to leave the fleet so people do, or put it in the contact you have to.
So the hard part is staffing it at first, I think we do this with the current Endeavor pilots. Via a quick flow that eliminates the staple talk, new employee numbers, new seniority numbers and new pay scales. We then staff this fenced fleet of Delta until the clock starts for folks to bid out.
Then the wheel starts turned leading us to phase 2: new hires.
All new hires at Delta are hired in as an FO for the fenced fleet. They then work there way up to captain, maybe a year or two, then 2 years as a captain, then bid out to mainline fleet.
I know there are holes to this, but one thing it eliminates is 12 year CA pay for flying a 200. No one would be making more than year 4 CA pay to fly regional aircraft. So therefore you've kept the staffing costs down.
Thoughts?
Bring everything in house gets a lot of cheers from me and like thinkers. There's a dozen ways to make it happen, and 5 or 6 times that in reasons why it won't happen today or next month. Delta would try a lot of little things incrementally before doing the above.
04-15-2017, 08:31 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 480
Originally Posted by jethikoki
Choice? It was my choice to come here as much as it was for NWA pilots to go to Delta. Your well thought out explanation is all great and good and I agree. My problem is with how easy it is for mainline management to take advantage of poor or substandard buyout policies or legalities mainline management has when buying out a regional.
You would need to write and vote in regulation on a federal level to respect the growing number of ways pilots choose to harm themselves by taking crap jobs on purpose with their eyes open. At some point the gubbermint has to let me hurt myself. There's a few people here that would probably love a staple, and that's been regulated out of existence.
If no one showed up for mcdonalds jobs tomorrow, mcdonalds would pay more and fix stuff. Same goes for walmart. Idk man
04-15-2017, 08:47 AM
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Why would Delta want anything to do with us, we have pilots that can't even activate an iPad.
Delta would have to fire 200-300 pilots from here to bring us up, they can't take that hit. We are several hundred short, and mainline is about 1500 short of pilots.
Delta would have to fire 200-300 pilots from here to bring us up, they can't take that hit. We are several hundred short, and mainline is about 1500 short of pilots.
04-15-2017, 09:04 AM
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Position: 6 Train - Panhandler
Posts: 2,001
Originally Posted by Mesabah
Why would Delta want anything to do with us, we have pilots that can't even activate an iPad.
Delta would have to fire 200-300 pilots from here to bring us up, they can't take that hit. We are several hundred short, and mainline is about 1500 short of pilots.
Delta would have to fire 200-300 pilots from here to bring us up, they can't take that hit. We are several hundred short, and mainline is about 1500 short of pilots.
04-15-2017, 09:13 AM
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Inverted
Posts: 402
Originally Posted by JesuitValen
When you say "i know there are holes" it sounds like you're saying "i don't want to hear any of them." So when you're saying "thoughts" it sounds like you're just looking for applause. Reminds me of a couple posters on here.
Bring everything in house gets a lot of cheers from me and like thinkers. There's a dozen ways to make it happen, and 5 or 6 times that in reasons why it won't happen today or next month. Delta would try a lot of little things incrementally before doing the above.
Bring everything in house gets a lot of cheers from me and like thinkers. There's a dozen ways to make it happen, and 5 or 6 times that in reasons why it won't happen today or next month. Delta would try a lot of little things incrementally before doing the above.
04-15-2017, 09:21 AM
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Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 480
Originally Posted by HeyOneTaco
I was admiting it's not perfect by saying that. That's all I meant. I'm happy to hear the holes in it
-Mainline ex mil don't want their buds having to spend years in regionals because they deserve the mainline seat more than civilian.
-12 yr regional captain really doesnt cost delta enough to matter in big picture.
-the rapid flow you discuss will cost senior pilots at endeavor near retirement age money overall as they are starting over (maybe 401k autoadd you could sell it?)
-telling every mainline pilot edv just cut the line and lots of those guys cant even pass the holy interview.
-you will finally trigger single carrier status senior regional pilots at edv wank to late at night
-most importantly it costs delta money when theres no need to, edv is fine with their staffing.
-delta loses all possibilities of a whip saw later when economic conditions on ground change
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