Well, for one staples arent allowed under federal law, ever since AA raped TWA. That... wasn't very long ago, why don't you know what mccatskill-bond is?

Anyway, instead of asking "why not staple" or " why not zoidberg", ask "why not single seniority list" because they all have the same answer, a majority of pilots would vote against such proposals. ALPA is a group of loosely tied together local organizations.

ALPA and the pilots who run it have been locking down scope for a decade now on all contracts, however, regionals are seen as a stepping stone and in a corporate structure they are held as a subsidiary IF wholly owned. No union can negate legal corporate structure, and even if they could a Delta pilot knows an Endeavor or a Republic adds profit and stock value, and they'll be damned if they upset that apple cart.

In summary, pilot's don't want it, even if they did it would be illegal, even if they wanted it they'd have to endure relative category and class with fences and that would go over badly. Can you imagine a 12 delta captain junior to a 12 yr regional captain? Of course a regional would love it, but holy hell, the pilots would overwhelmingly decertify ALPA and create their own union which would hold the regional as a separate entity. Which is where we are now.

 

Yes I do. To bad ALPA couldn't help TWA pilots. I think you should clarify. Mainline pilots don't want it to maintain status quo in their favor and contributes to abuse by management against regional pilots. If as you say it is not legal then have something like it as a direct flow. It would never be accepted or allowed at a mainline but you or ALPA accepts abusive practices as long as its done at a regional level. Or just give the same interview to all Endeavor pilots that NWA and Western pilots had for Delta.

 

Abuse of regional pilots? Have you seen what Delta did to it's mainline pilots? You're at work, youre there for abuse in exchange for a paycheck, and you can leave. You want Endeavor to get even better? Start leaving for an airline with a flow, you can always come back. Delta will choose to ignore endeavors further complaints as long as attrition is low (surprisingly low) and classes are half full or full.

Pilots have poured in here for the DGI, and there's only a promise with no contractual enforcement. You think you deserve more (and God bless) but you think you're deal at Endeavor is better than the American guys or you'd have left. All the brave pilots who were willing to leave for better opportunities and made life better for everyone at Endeavor by their choice and followthrough are gone. There's no one here to bail this pilot group out, except for the 3 or 4 guys a month going to United and American.

So, if it's that bad, leave. Otherwise, you made a choice to come here, try and make it better by getting those retention bonuses converted and making Endeavor and Delta put that DGI into the contract so they don't welch later. You obviously don't want a flow badly and staples are illegal. So complain about something more productive, like hot dogs coming in 8s and buns in 10...

 

Pretty much all true. Once the bodies stop coming through the door....LOA's and major changes start happening. Until then expect status quo...which is BS because the senior pilot group deserves a raise.

 

Yes. They. Do. Get those senior guys something.

 

So here's a pipe dream but hear me out..

Why wouldn't bringing all the flying in house via a fence work?

Park all of the 200s once the C-series arrive. All 900, E170/75s come in house and they slowly dismantle regional flying and create a pilot fence. I'll explain, there's two phases to creating this fence.

1: The initial launch and staffing of it.
2: The new hire program.

So when I mean fence I mean all of the regional type flying becomes the entry level of Delta. You must operate for at least two years as a captain in the fence program. Then you can bid out to the mainline fleet as we know it today. The encentive to bid out is pay. Make it worthwhile to leave the fleet so people do, or put it in the contact you have to.

So the hard part is staffing it at first, I think we do this with the current Endeavor pilots. Via a quick flow that eliminates the staple talk, new employee numbers, new seniority numbers and new pay scales. We then staff this fenced fleet of Delta until the clock starts for folks to bid out.

Then the wheel starts turned leading us to phase 2: new hires.

All new hires at Delta are hired in as an FO for the fenced fleet. They then work there way up to captain, maybe a year or two, then 2 years as a captain, then bid out to mainline fleet.

I know there are holes to this, but one thing it eliminates is 12 year CA pay for flying a 200. No one would be making more than year 4 CA pay to fly regional aircraft. So therefore you've kept the staffing costs down.

I know the F word is in there but at some point mass movement like this would require that. So it's an achilles heel to this.

Thoughts?

 

Choice? It was my choice to come here as much as it was for NWA pilots to go to Delta. Your well thought out explanation is all great and good and I agree. My problem is with how easy it is for mainline management to take advantage of poor or substandard buyout policies or legalities when buying out a regional.

 

When you say "i know there are holes" it sounds like you're saying "i don't want to hear any of them." So when you're saying "thoughts" it sounds like you're just looking for applause. Reminds me of a couple posters on here.

Bring everything in house gets a lot of cheers from me and like thinkers. There's a dozen ways to make it happen, and 5 or 6 times that in reasons why it won't happen today or next month. Delta would try a lot of little things incrementally before doing the above.

 

Yeah, idk. Life is unfair and all that.

You would need to write and vote in regulation on a federal level to respect the growing number of ways pilots choose to harm themselves by taking crap jobs on purpose with their eyes open. At some point the gubbermint has to let me hurt myself. There's a few people here that would probably love a staple, and that's been regulated out of existence.

If no one showed up for mcdonalds jobs tomorrow, mcdonalds would pay more and fix stuff. Same goes for walmart. Idk man

 

Why would Delta want anything to do with us, we have pilots that can't even activate an iPad.

Delta would have to fire 200-300 pilots from here to bring us up, they can't take that hit. We are several hundred short, and mainline is about 1500 short of pilots.