Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
10-01-2017, 01:03 PM
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: 757/767
Posts: 389
Originally Posted by PT6flyer
God you're backwards. The bonuses will end if not renewed and you're welcome to vote that way. The majority of pilots are harmed by a low wage and high bonus. You're trying to rationalize your way of life to everyone and you're in the historic and present day minority.
Negotiations have always used an 83 hour guarontee as a basis for cost analysis. The union has, the company has, and the company started at 87. If you wanna work 75 go ahead, you'll make less than the pilots crediting more just like before.
Most pilots refuse to drive this company off a bridge or threaten to in order to protect a few guys here that love the deal they have now.
You didn't care to leave when your wages were crap and you don't care about a wage increase. Apparently you got used to it. I'm looking forward to some 7k months.
Negotiations have always used an 83 hour guarontee as a basis for cost analysis. The union has, the company has, and the company started at 87. If you wanna work 75 go ahead, you'll make less than the pilots crediting more just like before.
Most pilots refuse to drive this company off a bridge or threaten to in order to protect a few guys here that love the deal they have now.
You didn't care to leave when your wages were crap and you don't care about a wage increase. Apparently you got used to it. I'm looking forward to some 7k months.
10-01-2017, 02:07 PM
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Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 139
Originally Posted by 172skychicken
What? Premium pay is premium pay. You get it for a reason. Whether that be a pickup, an extension, a junior extension, or a BYD day. If someone wants premium pay, they can make it happen. Currently, someone flying a 90 hour credit pushed line, or flying 100 hours on reserve is effectively making less per hour than someone crediting guarantee. That is not right, and runs contrary to historical precedence for pilot compensation here in the US. Not everyone making over guarantee is an opentime fiend. If anyone actually has a coherent argument that explains why a bonus structure is preferable to pay rates, I'd love to hear it.
I think some of you might be surprised how few pilots here are going to be willing to burn the place down trying prevent what likely won't be a pay cut due to increases in per diem, sick accrual, and 401k match. Or flow. Particularly when you factor in the restoration ALPA was seeking for the senior guys.
I think some of you might be surprised how few pilots here are going to be willing to burn the place down trying prevent what likely won't be a pay cut due to increases in per diem, sick accrual, and 401k match. Or flow. Particularly when you factor in the restoration ALPA was seeking for the senior guys.
10-01-2017, 02:35 PM
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Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: CR9 CA, FT Minivan Driver
Posts: 452
Originally Posted by HighFlight
For anyone wishing to make extra money, here’s an idea for you...
https://edvonthefly.com/2017/09/22/e...american-made/
https://edvonthefly.com/2017/09/22/e...american-made/
Speaking of that movie, anyone seen it yet? We meant to go, but our daughter had a cross country meet yesterday.
10-01-2017, 02:36 PM
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Position: 6 Train - Panhandler
Posts: 2,001
Originally Posted by HighFlight
Perhaps you are right. I was just going off what a person who has been here a lot longer than I told me during a convo about the bonus vs. pay rates at EDV. Please forgive me for trusting without verifying and potentially spreading bad info.
On the flip side, 9E is listed under a WO subsidiary which conducts its operation under the guarantee of service for sustainability. We are not a corporation and therefore are not listed as one nor a publicly traded company. In fact, RG, our CEO is not really a 9E employee. His title is there simply to check the block of the federal responsibility that delta has with owning a business. He was the same title at Comair too.
Everything we do is a direct operation of Delta Air Lines, including the bankruptcy. If anyone wants an explanation of our bankruptcy just ask me and I will write about it.
Delta hit a snag in it's regional hiring (us) and wanted to sort out this contract to make us attractive again to keep the ball rolling for the uplift in aircraft they want us to fill. That is all. So, let's see what they give us in that effort. If we say no, they will either give us more or Comair us. The latter is not a viable option as it used to be given the current market for regional pilots.
10-01-2017, 02:36 PM
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Joined APC: Mar 2014
Position: 757/767
Posts: 389
Originally Posted by Lenticularis
Skychix. You are way off on this US historical. Lets look at our own airline. I have had months I flew 40 hours and was paid 85. I personally know pilots who had not flown for 70 days all the while collecting 75 hour checks, and then there is the group of Q dudes who got 9months off, DAL travel benys whom they had never carried a PAX for, and 75hour Capt. Paychecks under the old JCBA. Compare those averages on an hourly basis. It’s not fair. That is the true history. None of this is going to be fair for all groups. Good luck with gaining the right perspective, because it’s what will matter the most with a contract I bet will easily pass.
10-01-2017, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PT6flyer
For all practical purposes you are correct. However, the lines between companies must be maintained (we may be the only wholly owned airline but not the only wholly owned company) and investors do not care about practicality, neither does the SEC or the BOD. Endeavor is a profit center for the airline Delta, which profits are put on their SEC filing to boost share value.
It may make more sense to you personally, but make no mistake, we are a separate company with separate monies lended and returned or else the SEC would shut delta down. We have money in the bank and it is Deltas. I get it, sometimes this seems like a irrelevant thing to point out, but at some point the investors look at the money changing hands and say "endeavor isn't worth the hassel" and the Board, Investors and Executive Managment have shown the ability and desire in the past to lose a couple hundred million dollars just to scare the regional pilot groups. Comair made money and Delta excitedly shut it down just to show their dominance.
We still make a profit, but we're not Skywest. If they wanted to shut us down, make mainline work overtime, until they could dump everything into skywest or start a new wholly owned they would. We aren't important. But in the meantime we get rid of the bonuses in exchange for negotiated pay rates and soft pay enhancements.
Wish we'd gotten something closer to a flow. That Envoy deal looks better every day. Anyway, back to 18 days off.
It may make more sense to you personally, but make no mistake, we are a separate company with separate monies lended and returned or else the SEC would shut delta down. We have money in the bank and it is Deltas. I get it, sometimes this seems like a irrelevant thing to point out, but at some point the investors look at the money changing hands and say "endeavor isn't worth the hassel" and the Board, Investors and Executive Managment have shown the ability and desire in the past to lose a couple hundred million dollars just to scare the regional pilot groups. Comair made money and Delta excitedly shut it down just to show their dominance.
We still make a profit, but we're not Skywest. If they wanted to shut us down, make mainline work overtime, until they could dump everything into skywest or start a new wholly owned they would. We aren't important. But in the meantime we get rid of the bonuses in exchange for negotiated pay rates and soft pay enhancements.
Wish we'd gotten something closer to a flow. That Envoy deal looks better every day. Anyway, back to 18 days off.
10-01-2017, 03:56 PM
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If Delta is trying to recruit more pilots here, how does them pushing a TA to us that has no new form of career progression, a pay rate that is barely leading the industry until the AA WO's counter as soon as it's in stone over here. The more I think about this, the more I want to say no without even seeing the numbers. Sure go ahead and Comair us, I've got a list of 3 AA WO's that would love to hire us with so much prior 121 time.
10-01-2017, 04:14 PM
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Posts: 139
Originally Posted by HeyOneTaco
If Delta is trying to recruit more pilots here, how does them pushing a TA to us that has no new form of career progression, a pay rate that is barely leading the industry until the AA WO's counter as soon as it's in stone over here. The more I think about this, the more I want to say no without even seeing the numbers. Sure go ahead and Comair us, I've got a list of 3 AA WO's that would love to hire us with so much prior 121 time.
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