Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
01-12-2018, 04:08 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 102
Originally Posted by Mesabah
Almost everyone who does CDO/CNO/P3 has another job.
You can't go back and forth between day flying, and cdo's without time off. You would be more usable if you had, say a 5 day stretch of P3, and could do a 4 day starting day 2. However, with only 3 days, they really can only give you a two day. So with 2 on 1 off, you have more days spread out to cover single CDO's here and there, or a day trip. On a 3 on 1 off, you almost always wind up with only 2-3 two-day trips during the whole month, vs 5-6 cdos/day trips, in a 2 on 1 off month. If that makes sense.
I've been doing it for 10 years now, I have a lot of experience with it.
You can't go back and forth between day flying, and cdo's without time off. You would be more usable if you had, say a 5 day stretch of P3, and could do a 4 day starting day 2. However, with only 3 days, they really can only give you a two day. So with 2 on 1 off, you have more days spread out to cover single CDO's here and there, or a day trip. On a 3 on 1 off, you almost always wind up with only 2-3 two-day trips during the whole month, vs 5-6 cdos/day trips, in a 2 on 1 off month. If that makes sense.
I've been doing it for 10 years now, I have a lot of experience with it.
Well, If I understand this type of reserve schedule (P3) correctly, a reserve pilot with 12 days off [formerly 11 days off] ... but with only "1 off day at a time" and whether it be a schedule of 2 on (or now 3 on) ... so, would this reserve pilot be able, or possibly even legal to pick up any overtime flying on his days off?
Would P1 or P2 reserve be any different in regards to being able to pick up open time on off days?
Maybe that explains why evidently so many reserve pilots bidding for P3 reserve have 2nd jobs, as there may be issues involved with off day flying for extra cash?
30 in 168 comes to mind, as well as a few other legalities.
Am I missing something here?
Thanks, AU
Last edited by AU MD FLYER; 01-12-2018 at 04:18 AM.
01-12-2018, 06:46 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
As I saw someone else post elsewhere, the new callout will be:
Positive Rate
Gear up, FD off
Positive Rate
Gear up, FD off
Originally Posted by CharlieFoxtr0t
So CFM rev 4 goes active on 1/15 this should be fun...... RIP raw data TO.
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Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
01-12-2018, 07:11 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 48
Quick contract question
For all the contract gurus. I was awarded a 5 day that was originally credited at let's say for easy calculation purposes 22:00 Now I know after completing the trip since it was a 5 day it would be credited at 25:00 even if we did not block 25:00. Mid trip I had a 4:00 sit in base and was called by CS to do a turn for an FO that called in fatigued. It was a quick turn and would get me back in time for my last flight from my original schedule.
They said I needed to do it due to "operational necessity" although I learned from my Captain that I wasn't really obligated to pick up my phone in the first place. The turn added 3:00 credit to my trip making the new trip total 25:00.
Since this trip would have been credit at 25:00 regardless I feel I almost operated that turn for no compensation as I would have credited the same amount regardless if I had done it or not. Just wondering if I have grounds to file a grievance or not. Thanks in advance!
-RJ
They said I needed to do it due to "operational necessity" although I learned from my Captain that I wasn't really obligated to pick up my phone in the first place. The turn added 3:00 credit to my trip making the new trip total 25:00.
Since this trip would have been credit at 25:00 regardless I feel I almost operated that turn for no compensation as I would have credited the same amount regardless if I had done it or not. Just wondering if I have grounds to file a grievance or not. Thanks in advance!
-RJ
01-12-2018, 07:25 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by HighFlight
As I saw someone else post elsewhere, the new callout will be:
Positive Rate
Gear up, FD off
Positive Rate
Gear up, FD off
01-12-2018, 07:48 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
I’m pretty sure your 25 hours for the 5 day trip are protected as such, and the 3 hour credit should be above and beyond. After your trip is over, check Rainmaker, and if that is not the case, add a note to the segment in question and point out that it was added flying.
Originally Posted by RJdriver89
For all the contract gurus. I was awarded a 5 day that was originally credited at let's say for easy calculation purposes 22:00 Now I know after completing the trip since it was a 5 day it would be credited at 25:00 even if we did not block 25:00. Mid trip I had a 4:00 sit in base and was called by CS to do a turn for an FO that called in fatigued. It was a quick turn and would get me back in time for my last flight from my original schedule.
They said I needed to do it due to "operational necessity" although I learned from my Captain that I wasn't really obligated to pick up my phone in the first place. The turn added 3:00 credit to my trip making the new trip total 25:00.
Since this trip would have been credit at 25:00 regardless I feel I almost operated that turn for no compensation as I would have credited the same amount regardless if I had done it or not. Just wondering if I have grounds to file a grievance or not. Thanks in advance!
-RJ
They said I needed to do it due to "operational necessity" although I learned from my Captain that I wasn't really obligated to pick up my phone in the first place. The turn added 3:00 credit to my trip making the new trip total 25:00.
Since this trip would have been credit at 25:00 regardless I feel I almost operated that turn for no compensation as I would have credited the same amount regardless if I had done it or not. Just wondering if I have grounds to file a grievance or not. Thanks in advance!
-RJ
01-12-2018, 07:56 AM
Bus Driver ordinarie
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Airbus CA
Posts: 555
#fdrfail
Originally Posted by CharlieFoxtr0t
So CFM rev 4 goes active on 1/15 this should be fun...... RIP raw data TO
Joking aside, we have both a memo and CFM guidance for a deferred FCC/FD takeoff; we just can't use it until the MEL is on the release? Under most circumstances i believe we should fly the airplane the way our employers tell us to, but his seems a step backwards. A no FD takeoff is about the easiest 'no automation' scenario we have, good god, it's pitch for an airspeed, and less of one if there's a big bang from behind.
This is tantamount to mandating autopilot engagement at 600' and clicking it off at 80' on an ILS.
When its appropriate we should have the discretion to fly raw data, and practice what may be required by an MEL.
I wonder if the company will revisit this once people start refusing FD inop metal because they have never Rotated into the Raw.
/PL
01-12-2018, 08:19 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by Punkah Louvre
Agreed. #FDRFAIL is trending too. What, I have a switch to throw now?
Joking aside, we have both a memo and CFM guidance for a deferred FCC/FD takeoff; we just can't use it until the MEL is on the release? Under most circumstances i believe we should fly the airplane the way our employers tell us to, but his seems a step backwards. A no FD takeoff is about the easiest 'no automation' scenario we have, good god, it's pitch for an airspeed, and less of one if there's a big bang from behind.
This is tantamount to mandating autopilot engagement at 600' and clicking it off at 80' on an ILS.
When its appropriate we should have the discretion to fly raw data, and practice what may be required by an MEL.
I wonder if the company will revisit this once people start refusing FD inop metal because they have never Rotated into the Raw.
/PL
Joking aside, we have both a memo and CFM guidance for a deferred FCC/FD takeoff; we just can't use it until the MEL is on the release? Under most circumstances i believe we should fly the airplane the way our employers tell us to, but his seems a step backwards. A no FD takeoff is about the easiest 'no automation' scenario we have, good god, it's pitch for an airspeed, and less of one if there's a big bang from behind.
This is tantamount to mandating autopilot engagement at 600' and clicking it off at 80' on an ILS.
When its appropriate we should have the discretion to fly raw data, and practice what may be required by an MEL.
I wonder if the company will revisit this once people start refusing FD inop metal because they have never Rotated into the Raw.
/PL
01-12-2018, 08:26 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
Originally Posted by HighFlight
SKW is pretty short in DTW now. I heard ENY was coming down over the summer, but honestly haven’t kept up lately. Hopefully it’s not so long for them now.
Won’t go into pay, though ENY may actually beat us on 2YFO pay now.
Won’t go into pay, though ENY may actually beat us on 2YFO pay now.
I never thought I'd be reading about FOs being forcibly displaced to CA. Or a contract that allowed it for that matter.
And judging by the amount of talk of wanting 9E pay rates, you don't have any worry about them making more. They want the work rules too FWIW.
With potential flow times reaching or exceeding 9-10 years now they aren't even happy with that at this point.
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