Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
06-13-2022, 08:28 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 415
Originally Posted by Usrabbit
I created this account just to come on here and combat the disinformation and doom and gloom that is posted for people considering Endeavor.
Of all the info I got about 90% of the information I got from this forum lacked perspective. Meaning some of it was true but lacked additional info I needed to make an informed decision. Im not pointing fingers, nor am I here to argue with anyone. Simply, some perspective for anyone considering Endeavor. Especially For you young guys putting in apps, and I get it, it’s hard to get solid info until you are in the industry or at least on property. Just consider this forum may not have what your looking for or at least not 100% accurate.
For transparency I’m in new hire training and don’t have any line experience, however my experience with the company so far has been nothing but positive.
For all the new hires out there and the guys putting in apps, you can stop with the hand wringing. You cannot play 3D chess and have all the answers for two years down the road. You will have to choose a regional and “pay your dues” so to speak to get to a legacy. But there has never and I mean ever been a better time to be a regional pilot. Companies are literately competing to get you on property. That benefits everyone here.
A couple of points.
#1 if your a line pilot who is cruising through your Regional career fat dumb and happy, would you log on to some forum to complain about your regional? No, you wouldn’t. So perspective #1 is the majority of opinion you get from this forum comes from people salty enough to complain. You can find them here and in every military unit in the world. Every job has them really. No one I’ve met at the company takes this forum seriously. Find a buddy that works here or call pilot recruitment and get actual info. Don’t base your decision off the rumor mill.
#2 A regionals pay chart isn’t the only decision you need to consider. Do you know what a Non-compete clause is ? Do you know how it works? Did you know that in the three year window you work for some AA regionals when you quit you can’t work for another airline for 12 months? Others have a two year non compete. The point is you won’t just be able to jump to your dream mainline job when you get your hours and you may have to pay back some of your bonus. Something to consider especially since Endeavor doesn’t have a non compete at least for now for FO’s. So you only owe them for ATP if you leave within 12 months from hire. In this hiring boom that’s something to think about. How much money and seniority are you giving away in that year that you’d otherwise be at a major? Do you want to be under contract if you don’t have to be?
#3 Why are all the regionals coming out with bonus and pay increases? Because they need pilots and they need them for more than 12 months. Especially with training taking 4-8 months. So some companies are offering you captain pay at 750 hours. Now why would they do that? Could it be because they are losing FO’s to the legacies who hit that hour mark? And that reduces their CA pool and LCA pool? 1500 +750, you do the math. But those guys are getting hired at the majors. It’s just like the military, they do not offer a bonus unless it benefits them. Just two years of seniority is a lot at a major in this hiring boom. If someone were to offer you some free money, wouldn’t you ask if there is a catch? It’s the same, think of these gimmicks as a way of them asking you to stay at the regionals for 4 or 5 years and then it’ll make sense. The point is the money may only be there if you choose to stay longer than most regional guys would in this hiring environment.
#4 Endeavor hasn’t even had a chance to respond. Whatever the AA wholly owned have will be bargaining chips come negotiation time. I was once told chase quality of life and the money will come. From my vantage point that seems to be the case at any airline with ALPA representation. Republic got a pay raise not that long ago and I think the united regional did as well.
#5 You have to roll the dice somewhere. In my experience every regional I interviewed with was a gamble. On the base I would get and in the plane I would get and there was no way around it. The best advice I can give is to rack and stack them according to your own risk and reward scale and select the one with the acceptable amount of risk you are comfortable with. That said I don’t see many regionals that I would personally say are so bad I couldn’t work there. Are you flying? Yeah. Are you getting paid well? Yeah. Is there opportunity to move up in the company or other companies? Yeah. Anybody flying at a regional right now has a good shot to be at a major or LLC of their choice.
#6 Regional life is a stepping stone or a permanent job selection depending on the person. There are too many factors that go into a decision like choosing a regional, like pay, to bases, to aircraft, and even to class start dates. It can be overwhelming. That said I’ve looked at the seniority list at EDV and there are a lot of people who have been here a long time. My instrument instructor has been here for 4 and is upgrading to Capt. He just took a years worth of salary in the form of a bonus directly into his bank account and will likely flow in 2 maybe 3 years. Regardless he is pretty happy with EDV. So they must be doing something right and the seniority list has plenty of folks just like my instrument instructor.
#7 For now EDV still has positive space. Go non rev or jump seat with these 92% loads and you’ll see its a nice perk. Yeah I know it may end in OCT and no, no one knows if we will keep it past that.
#8 Take everything with a grain of skepticism you hear on this forum. My advice is for the new hires wondering if they are making the right choice. I have no line experience. I will be a two leg commute to NYC. Yes that will suck. But it seems pretty plausible I can domicile somewhere else in a year. By the time I get done with training I’m 5-8 months to that goal with a regional I may only be at for a year or maybe a little more. I got the plane I wanted, the 2nd base I wanted and pretty happy with the choice I made. I have some cons with this job for sure but many pros as well. Don’t kid yourself it’ll be that way anywhere. Yes 8 dollars an hour more would be great but that’s not enough that I have FOMO yet.
Good luck to you young guys pulling the trigger on a regional. I think you’ll be fine no matter where you go.
But whatever you do be skeptical of the guys that say WHY WOULD YOU COME HERE ? OMG it’s so bad here, it’s like a grog….blah…blah..blah. At least find out why they have that perspective.
Of all the info I got about 90% of the information I got from this forum lacked perspective. Meaning some of it was true but lacked additional info I needed to make an informed decision. Im not pointing fingers, nor am I here to argue with anyone. Simply, some perspective for anyone considering Endeavor. Especially For you young guys putting in apps, and I get it, it’s hard to get solid info until you are in the industry or at least on property. Just consider this forum may not have what your looking for or at least not 100% accurate.
For transparency I’m in new hire training and don’t have any line experience, however my experience with the company so far has been nothing but positive.
For all the new hires out there and the guys putting in apps, you can stop with the hand wringing. You cannot play 3D chess and have all the answers for two years down the road. You will have to choose a regional and “pay your dues” so to speak to get to a legacy. But there has never and I mean ever been a better time to be a regional pilot. Companies are literately competing to get you on property. That benefits everyone here.
A couple of points.
#1 if your a line pilot who is cruising through your Regional career fat dumb and happy, would you log on to some forum to complain about your regional? No, you wouldn’t. So perspective #1 is the majority of opinion you get from this forum comes from people salty enough to complain. You can find them here and in every military unit in the world. Every job has them really. No one I’ve met at the company takes this forum seriously. Find a buddy that works here or call pilot recruitment and get actual info. Don’t base your decision off the rumor mill.
#2 A regionals pay chart isn’t the only decision you need to consider. Do you know what a Non-compete clause is ? Do you know how it works? Did you know that in the three year window you work for some AA regionals when you quit you can’t work for another airline for 12 months? Others have a two year non compete. The point is you won’t just be able to jump to your dream mainline job when you get your hours and you may have to pay back some of your bonus. Something to consider especially since Endeavor doesn’t have a non compete at least for now for FO’s. So you only owe them for ATP if you leave within 12 months from hire. In this hiring boom that’s something to think about. How much money and seniority are you giving away in that year that you’d otherwise be at a major? Do you want to be under contract if you don’t have to be?
#3 Why are all the regionals coming out with bonus and pay increases? Because they need pilots and they need them for more than 12 months. Especially with training taking 4-8 months. So some companies are offering you captain pay at 750 hours. Now why would they do that? Could it be because they are losing FO’s to the legacies who hit that hour mark? And that reduces their CA pool and LCA pool? 1500 +750, you do the math. But those guys are getting hired at the majors. It’s just like the military, they do not offer a bonus unless it benefits them. Just two years of seniority is a lot at a major in this hiring boom. If someone were to offer you some free money, wouldn’t you ask if there is a catch? It’s the same, think of these gimmicks as a way of them asking you to stay at the regionals for 4 or 5 years and then it’ll make sense. The point is the money may only be there if you choose to stay longer than most regional guys would in this hiring environment.
#4 Endeavor hasn’t even had a chance to respond. Whatever the AA wholly owned have will be bargaining chips come negotiation time. I was once told chase quality of life and the money will come. From my vantage point that seems to be the case at any airline with ALPA representation. Republic got a pay raise not that long ago and I think the united regional did as well.
#5 You have to roll the dice somewhere. In my experience every regional I interviewed with was a gamble. On the base I would get and in the plane I would get and there was no way around it. The best advice I can give is to rack and stack them according to your own risk and reward scale and select the one with the acceptable amount of risk you are comfortable with. That said I don’t see many regionals that I would personally say are so bad I couldn’t work there. Are you flying? Yeah. Are you getting paid well? Yeah. Is there opportunity to move up in the company or other companies? Yeah. Anybody flying at a regional right now has a good shot to be at a major or LLC of their choice.
#6 Regional life is a stepping stone or a permanent job selection depending on the person. There are too many factors that go into a decision like choosing a regional, like pay, to bases, to aircraft, and even to class start dates. It can be overwhelming. That said I’ve looked at the seniority list at EDV and there are a lot of people who have been here a long time. My instrument instructor has been here for 4 and is upgrading to Capt. He just took a years worth of salary in the form of a bonus directly into his bank account and will likely flow in 2 maybe 3 years. Regardless he is pretty happy with EDV. So they must be doing something right and the seniority list has plenty of folks just like my instrument instructor.
#7 For now EDV still has positive space. Go non rev or jump seat with these 92% loads and you’ll see its a nice perk. Yeah I know it may end in OCT and no, no one knows if we will keep it past that.
#8 Take everything with a grain of skepticism you hear on this forum. My advice is for the new hires wondering if they are making the right choice. I have no line experience. I will be a two leg commute to NYC. Yes that will suck. But it seems pretty plausible I can domicile somewhere else in a year. By the time I get done with training I’m 5-8 months to that goal with a regional I may only be at for a year or maybe a little more. I got the plane I wanted, the 2nd base I wanted and pretty happy with the choice I made. I have some cons with this job for sure but many pros as well. Don’t kid yourself it’ll be that way anywhere. Yes 8 dollars an hour more would be great but that’s not enough that I have FOMO yet.
Good luck to you young guys pulling the trigger on a regional. I think you’ll be fine no matter where you go.
But whatever you do be skeptical of the guys that say WHY WOULD YOU COME HERE ? OMG it’s so bad here, it’s like a grog….blah…blah..blah. At least find out why they have that perspective.
Second, you are correct. Endeavor is a great company. I have had nothing but good experience here. BUT, and this is a big but, that means nothing. When I was looking for my first 121 job, I had offers at Piedmont, PSA, and Endeavor. I choose endeavor for 1 reason. And 1 reason only. Money. I didn’t know anything about work rules, reserve life, or even what the difference between a CRJ and an ERJ was. But I did know that Endeavor paid significantly more than the others. Secondarily, AA was my #1 choice for mainline job at the time. I knew going to an AA WO with a flow wasn’t the best way to get to AA. Fast forward to today, and that last statement is more true than ever. And our pay is a fraction of the AA WOs. If I was in the same shoes today as I was back then, I’d go to an AA WO and then jump to DL when able.
Endeavor has a huge problem now. There is 0 reason to come here unless you live in one of our bases. If Delta is your goal, you’re a fool to come here. If AA is your goal, maybe it makes sense, except that you’ll lose a ton of pay over the next 2 years, as well as in 5 years if you aren’t at AA via flow, you’ll instantly make TOS CA pay until you flow.
We will have 50% less new hire pilots within a month if management doesn’t do something. We’ll also probably lose 20% or more junior FOs.
06-14-2022, 05:01 AM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Position: Pirate
Posts: 42
I have not started here yet but after talking to my friend who is about 2 months in, he said “every single person in my class applied to Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont this weekend.” So things aren’t looking great huh?
06-14-2022, 05:38 AM
Porco Rosso
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 2,522
Originally Posted by MilDriver
I have not started here yet but after talking to my friend who is about 2 months in, he said “every single person in my class applied to Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont this weekend.” So things aren’t looking great huh?
06-14-2022, 06:35 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 896
Originally Posted by MilDriver
I have not started here yet but after talking to my friend who is about 2 months in, he said “every single person in my class applied to Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont this weekend.” So things aren’t looking great huh?
The only reason to come to Endeavor now is if you really want DTW or NYC, don't want to get to Delta fast (at least 5 years), and want to make 57% less than your counterparts at the AA WOs.
06-14-2022, 06:56 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 232
Originally Posted by MilDriver
I have not started here yet but after talking to my friend who is about 2 months in, he said “every single person in my class applied to Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont this weekend.” So things aren’t looking great huh?
06-14-2022, 06:57 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 103
Originally Posted by 13pro
First, you are not who you say you are. In new hire training??? BS. No one in new hire at their first regional talks about the industry the way you do.
Second, you are correct. Endeavor is a great company. I have had nothing but good experience here. BUT, and this is a big but, that means nothing. When I was looking for my first 121 job, I had offers at Piedmont, PSA, and Endeavor. I choose endeavor for 1 reason. And 1 reason only. Money. I didn’t know anything about work rules, reserve life, or even what the difference between a CRJ and an ERJ was. But I did know that Endeavor paid significantly more than the others. Secondarily, AA was my #1 choice for mainline job at the time. I knew going to an AA WO with a flow wasn’t the best way to get to AA. Fast forward to today, and that last statement is more true than ever. And our pay is a fraction of the AA WOs. If I was in the same shoes today as I was back then, I’d go to an AA WO and then jump to DL when able.
Endeavor has a huge problem now. There is 0 reason to come here unless you live in one of our bases. If Delta is your goal, you’re a fool to come here. If AA is your goal, maybe it makes sense, except that you’ll lose a ton of pay over the next 2 years, as well as in 5 years if you aren’t at AA via flow, you’ll instantly make TOS CA pay until you flow.
We will have 50% less new hire pilots within a month if management doesn’t do something. We’ll also probably lose 20% or more junior FOs.
Second, you are correct. Endeavor is a great company. I have had nothing but good experience here. BUT, and this is a big but, that means nothing. When I was looking for my first 121 job, I had offers at Piedmont, PSA, and Endeavor. I choose endeavor for 1 reason. And 1 reason only. Money. I didn’t know anything about work rules, reserve life, or even what the difference between a CRJ and an ERJ was. But I did know that Endeavor paid significantly more than the others. Secondarily, AA was my #1 choice for mainline job at the time. I knew going to an AA WO with a flow wasn’t the best way to get to AA. Fast forward to today, and that last statement is more true than ever. And our pay is a fraction of the AA WOs. If I was in the same shoes today as I was back then, I’d go to an AA WO and then jump to DL when able.
Endeavor has a huge problem now. There is 0 reason to come here unless you live in one of our bases. If Delta is your goal, you’re a fool to come here. If AA is your goal, maybe it makes sense, except that you’ll lose a ton of pay over the next 2 years, as well as in 5 years if you aren’t at AA via flow, you’ll instantly make TOS CA pay until you flow.
We will have 50% less new hire pilots within a month if management doesn’t do something. We’ll also probably lose 20% or more junior FOs.
06-14-2022, 07:11 AM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 2,189
#1 thing EDV/DL could offer at this point would be a longevity credit when flowing. Kicks the cost off the regional partner, and makes it tempting to stay instead of LCC. Flow over at year 3 pay? That’s 150-160/hr and a huge leg up for the rest of one’s career. Other idea would be flowing 20 but putting say 30 on the list a month. Issue is any of these would require DALPA concurrence, which wouldn’t be on their radar until the PWA is done I’d imagine (remember DAL hasn’t has a pay raise since early 2019).
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