Read Before You Come To Envoy
01-03-2018, 05:59 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by AZPilotMike
1. Yes they are metering it, but people are flowing and it is expected to pickup in 2018. I get it though, it isn't delivering like it was hyped.
2. and 2a. I cant speak to as I am on the 175.
3. I find the flight benefits are pretty decent. I commute and have only had one commuter policy last year. As for traveling outside of work, the wife and mother in law use it often to get to Chicago and I think they have only had one bad experience, and honestly it was due to an aircraft maintenance issue in Philly compounded by crappy weather in Chicago. Cant really blame AA for that one.
I will agree however that the oversold issue is reaching an epic level, thankfully I commute on the 321 mostly and it has two jumps. Even so, I only JS about 30% of the time.
4. Agreed on pay and have written the union on it. The response I get from them is that management thinks the flow is strong enough to not require pay increases.
5. I have heard this, however I have not seen it, although admittedly I haven't checked. lol, perhaps I should audit my pay from last year. I am under the impression the union has a spreadsheet tool to do this with.
6. Rumor.
7. Haven't been junior manned a single time and most I have spoken to say once or twice in the years they have been working there.
8. True, the contract, especially in the case of crew scheduling is a loose document. If you don't know your rights, CS will take advantage of it.
9. Cant speak to it as I haven't used it. I will say day 4 seems to have the most brutal trips though, a day when people are very reluctant to use it. However, I haven't flown exhausted or witnessed an unsafe act related to sleep.
10. Havent upgraded yet, but have friends who have been "forced" to upgrade. It sucks for them mainly because they chose Envoy due to living in Dallas and now they have to commute, the one thing they didn't want to ever do for a regional.
11. Training is training, Envoy puts a huge burden on its Captains to get new hires up to speed. Not fair, but it seems to be working out.
12. True, DH pay sucks. In addition, we seem to be getting a lot of long sits, which we get paid zero for. This needs to change.
13. No idea, thankfully.
14. Have to say this is false, as in 100% false. I developed an upper respiratory infection in July that required I call out for three trips that month due to complications. Upon my probationary review, we discussed them and they where noted. I am off probation with a job still. It would be foolish for an airline to punish for such a thing. It would be a lawsuit waiting to happen. She did however say I had great feedback from my probey reports, so maybe that had something to do with it.
15, 16, 17, 18. All 100% agreed.
Reserve does suck and we are known for having some of the worst rules. However, I only had 3 weeks of true reserve so I cant complain. This is not the case now though as I have friends that came after me that have been sitting for months now. I got lucky.
There are not enough strong points to come here as a new pilot, or at least be a slam dunk. The Endeavor move really opened my eyes as to how it could be. However, myself personally haven't had to deal with too many bad things here. I have been treated well for the most part, crew scheduling aside, although they seem to be improving as of late. In addition, I was fortunate enough to get the 175 and haven't had to deal with many of your points. Perhaps I have been lucky, perhaps I appreciate being able to do this job.
The contract needs work, there is no getting around that.
2. and 2a. I cant speak to as I am on the 175.
3. I find the flight benefits are pretty decent. I commute and have only had one commuter policy last year. As for traveling outside of work, the wife and mother in law use it often to get to Chicago and I think they have only had one bad experience, and honestly it was due to an aircraft maintenance issue in Philly compounded by crappy weather in Chicago. Cant really blame AA for that one.
I will agree however that the oversold issue is reaching an epic level, thankfully I commute on the 321 mostly and it has two jumps. Even so, I only JS about 30% of the time.
4. Agreed on pay and have written the union on it. The response I get from them is that management thinks the flow is strong enough to not require pay increases.
5. I have heard this, however I have not seen it, although admittedly I haven't checked. lol, perhaps I should audit my pay from last year. I am under the impression the union has a spreadsheet tool to do this with.
6. Rumor.
7. Haven't been junior manned a single time and most I have spoken to say once or twice in the years they have been working there.
8. True, the contract, especially in the case of crew scheduling is a loose document. If you don't know your rights, CS will take advantage of it.
9. Cant speak to it as I haven't used it. I will say day 4 seems to have the most brutal trips though, a day when people are very reluctant to use it. However, I haven't flown exhausted or witnessed an unsafe act related to sleep.
10. Havent upgraded yet, but have friends who have been "forced" to upgrade. It sucks for them mainly because they chose Envoy due to living in Dallas and now they have to commute, the one thing they didn't want to ever do for a regional.
11. Training is training, Envoy puts a huge burden on its Captains to get new hires up to speed. Not fair, but it seems to be working out.
12. True, DH pay sucks. In addition, we seem to be getting a lot of long sits, which we get paid zero for. This needs to change.
13. No idea, thankfully.
14. Have to say this is false, as in 100% false. I developed an upper respiratory infection in July that required I call out for three trips that month due to complications. Upon my probationary review, we discussed them and they where noted. I am off probation with a job still. It would be foolish for an airline to punish for such a thing. It would be a lawsuit waiting to happen. She did however say I had great feedback from my probey reports, so maybe that had something to do with it.
15, 16, 17, 18. All 100% agreed.
Reserve does suck and we are known for having some of the worst rules. However, I only had 3 weeks of true reserve so I cant complain. This is not the case now though as I have friends that came after me that have been sitting for months now. I got lucky.
There are not enough strong points to come here as a new pilot, or at least be a slam dunk. The Endeavor move really opened my eyes as to how it could be. However, myself personally haven't had to deal with too many bad things here. I have been treated well for the most part, crew scheduling aside, although they seem to be improving as of late. In addition, I was fortunate enough to get the 175 and haven't had to deal with many of your points. Perhaps I have been lucky, perhaps I appreciate being able to do this job.
The contract needs work, there is no getting around that.
01-03-2018, 06:16 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 260
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
Unfortunately 14 is true. Company fired a pilot for calling in sick for the 4th time on his 1 year anniversary. Pilot had notes for all sick call outs. Union said the pilot wasn't on probation. Company said the pilot was still on probation. Still probation or not firing someone for calling out sick is just trouble waiting to happen.
01-03-2018, 09:56 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by TheRaven
3 different regionals?
No offense, but you sound like the kind of guy who would stub his toe on a gold brick and complain. You're a non-hacker, who couldn't persevere at 3 different regionals, who is bailing from the industry, and just want to watch the world burn.
No regional is all sunshine and rainbows, but it's a means to an end.
Good luck in accounting....
No offense, but you sound like the kind of guy who would stub his toe on a gold brick and complain. You're a non-hacker, who couldn't persevere at 3 different regionals, who is bailing from the industry, and just want to watch the world burn.
No regional is all sunshine and rainbows, but it's a means to an end.
Good luck in accounting....
01-03-2018, 12:30 PM
#36
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Cpt Rex Kramer
Three years at two accounting firms and a tax season at H&R Block
01-03-2018, 01:48 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by HanSoolu
The sad part about your statement is that I would much rather take my chances with your scenario than to stick it out with Envoy for things to "get better."
I also understand, that people have to find out things for themselves. Many guys have sworn off flying, only to stick their nose back under the tent after seeing that the grass isn't greener on the other side.
01-03-2018, 01:52 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by HanSoolu
The sad part about your statement is that I would much rather take my chances with your scenario than to stick it out with Envoy for things to "get better."
you are not the only person that's had to struggle. there are still thousands of pilots all over the world that go through what you've listed and sometimes worse but still keep fighting because they love flying.
the problem isn't envoy if you've been at three regionals. it's you.
01-03-2018, 02:14 PM
#39
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by ceelo
the problem isn't envoy if you've been at three regionals. it's you.
If one has the idea that an 'accounting' job at one of the big firms, or even a regional one, is about technical accounting or tax issues, or for heavens sake 'delivering value to our clients', you don't have the first clue as to what the profession is about. Let me help you down at least five years of the learning curve: It's all about the billable hour. Period.
So, how do you accelerate that 'accounting' career? Networking, sales skills, polish and bull****. Along the way you'll master 'management' and 'delegation' skills, which means pawning off your work on some chump that hasn't figured it out yet while hiding your own complete lack of technical expertise.
If you think the management at Envoy is bad, you are in for a very very rude awakening.
01-03-2018, 02:17 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 300
It isn't admirable or noble to "love flying" and be content with a horrible job because of a "passion for aviation." It is, in fact, a job. Some of us are trying to work toward improvements, although improvements remain unlikely. In my opinion, it remains a less-than-desirable job.
In my opinion, it is a disservice to the profession to make excuses for it's shortcomings. Instead of defending an inferior career, how about some unity toward making improvements?
Good luck to you as you pursue your career.
These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any entity or employer.
In my opinion, it is a disservice to the profession to make excuses for it's shortcomings. Instead of defending an inferior career, how about some unity toward making improvements?
Good luck to you as you pursue your career.
These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any entity or employer.
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