Search

Notices
Envoy Airlines Regional Airline

Class Drop List

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 10-05-2021 | 12:14 PM
  #1741  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
Likes: 0
Default

Stand corrected.
Reply
Old 10-06-2021 | 06:01 AM
  #1742  
Cujo665's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Default

Originally Posted by TransWorld
if AAG plan is to be consistent (which is a big if), wouldn’t it make better sense for PDT to be absorbed by Envoy? Both would still have a handful of E145s remaining for airports that just won’t support the larger jets.
Nope, both operating the same plane is a harder (longer, more expensive) merge than one with different fleets. With same fleet type, one training program gets scrapped and their entire staff needs the new indoc and airplane training. Merging different fleet companies, they just need indoc at the surviving company, as the new fleet type comes over with it's training program.
Reply
Old 10-06-2021 | 09:32 AM
  #1743  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,707
Likes: 0
Default

So its psa then
Reply
Old 10-06-2021 | 03:59 PM
  #1744  
TransWorld's Avatar
Gets Everyday Off
 
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1
From: Fully Retired
Default

Originally Posted by Cujo665
Nope, both operating the same plane is a harder (longer, more expensive) merge than one with different fleets. With same fleet type, one training program gets scrapped and their entire staff needs the new indoc and airplane training. Merging different fleet companies, they just need indoc at the surviving company, as the new fleet type comes over with it's training program.
If that was the case, the rationale would be AA having merged or bought out other airlines with some same fleets would be harder. Then the recent simplification to two narrow body and two wide body would be harder. Correct?

You are looking at the sub optimization of a part of the business, not the bigger benefits in other areas of the business that outweigh these costs and difficulties. Things like parts simplification, less pilot training events in the long term (not jumping from one type to another), less training required for mechanics, less number on reserve, scheduling simplifications, etc.

An example, parking the handful of the former US Airways A330s in favor of flying the B777 and B787 makes sense. Training events for the former A330 pilots, but all the other advantage stated above outweigh the cost. (And yes, Covid clouds the thinking, but all of this is the strategy underneath.)

The reasoning you gave does not look at the big picture.
Reply
Old 10-06-2021 | 04:24 PM
  #1745  
Cujo665's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Default

Originally Posted by TransWorld
If that was the case, the rationale would be AA having merged or bought out other airlines with some same fleets would be harder. Then the recent simplification to two narrow body and two wide body would be harder. Correct?

You are looking at the sub optimization of a part of the business, not the bigger benefits in other areas of the business that outweigh these costs and difficulties. Things like parts simplification, less pilot training events in the long term (not jumping from one type to another), less training required for mechanics, less number on reserve, scheduling simplifications, etc.

An example, parking the handful of the former US Airways A330s in favor of flying the B777 and B787 makes sense. Training events for the former A330 pilots, but all the other advantage stated above outweigh the cost. (And yes, Covid clouds the thinking, but all of this is the strategy underneath.)

The reasoning you gave does not look at the big picture.

You’re trying to equate major airline mergers and buyouts with consolidating owned cost centers. They aren’t the same. Buying another major brand to merge into an existing brand increases marketshare…l especially when one is bought in bankruptcy or otherwise in the cheap.

it’s not the same with owned regionals. They have no marketshare. They are cost centers. Reducing costs through consolidation means avoiding unnecessary costs in the process. I stand by my previous statement.
Reply
Old 10-06-2021 | 04:30 PM
  #1746  
Cujo665's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
Default

Originally Posted by buddies8
So its psa then
ENY and PSA, or PDT and PSA.
given the infrastructure shared by AA and Envoy, Envoy will be the surviving entity….

I’m betting it will be PSA and ENY. PDT will shrink until it’s either shut down or easily absorbed.
Reply
Old 10-06-2021 | 04:37 PM
  #1747  
TransWorld's Avatar
Gets Everyday Off
 
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1
From: Fully Retired
Default

Originally Posted by Cujo665
ENY and PSA, or PDT and PSA.
given the infrastructure shared by AA and Envoy, Envoy will be the surviving entity….

I’m betting it will be PSA and ENY. PDT will shrink until it’s either shut down or easily absorbed.
I’m betting Eagle (the new ultimate merger of all three) or all pilots from all three will be Group I (or Group I and Group 0.75) in AA. Check late in the decade. This is my Hail Mary pass.
Reply
Old 10-06-2021 | 04:41 PM
  #1748  
TransWorld's Avatar
Gets Everyday Off
 
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 1
From: Fully Retired
Default

Originally Posted by Cujo665
You’re trying to equate major airline mergers and buyouts with consolidating owned cost centers. They aren’t the same. Buying another major brand to merge into an existing brand increases marketshare…l especially when one is bought in bankruptcy or otherwise in the cheap.

it’s not the same with owned regionals. They have no marketshare. They are cost centers. Reducing costs through consolidation means avoiding unnecessary costs in the process. I stand by my previous statement.
Where in my points have I described market share?

By global optimization, not sub system optimization, consolidation reduces overall cost in the long term, even though there is extra cost in the short term. If you think beyond this quarter or this year, you would see this.
Reply
Old 10-06-2021 | 05:37 PM
  #1749  
In a land of unicorns
 
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
Default

Originally Posted by Cujo665
ENY and PSA, or PDT and PSA.
given the infrastructure shared by AA and Envoy, Envoy will be the surviving entity….

I’m betting it will be PSA and ENY. PDT will shrink until it’s either shut down or easily absorbed.
PDT has a large ground handling side so that complicates it a bit. PSA is just an airline.
Reply
Old 10-06-2021 | 07:39 PM
  #1750  
Line Holder
 
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 71
Likes: 0
Default

Does the training center close for Thanksgiving/Christmas? I’m thinking I’ll be doing sims toward the end of November.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
FMGEC
Delta
13
11-20-2017 08:35 AM
Route66
American
6
04-08-2015 06:38 AM
Bucking Bar
Major
1
02-04-2009 11:12 AM
seafeye
Regional
140
01-29-2009 06:24 AM
maddogmax
Mergers and Acquisitions
96
10-23-2008 06:53 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices