FlyingJedi

The company cares about many different metrics, not just filling classes with new pilots. Many of the things the company cares about could be impacted by the current pilot group on property with union leadership. Waiting for classes to not fill up is the easy answer because it requires the union and current pilots to do nothing. They can just point their fingers at new pilots happy to be at an airline instead of doing their job. Pay rates at envoy have been behind for several years now so instead of blaming the newest pilots in the company how about owning the fact that over the past two years many other regionals have gotten pay increases but we haven’t.
New pilots aren’t entitled, we just can’t figure out why this pilot group has been happy working for peanuts for so long.

pitchattitude

But how did a cadet end up with a 145? I thought the last 145 only class was before the PSA raise.

NoValueAviator

I mean, I agree that the post you quoted probably didn't actually happen but cadets have gotten the 145. Actually, as the proportion of cadets in classes increases, RTP hires dwindle, and street hires remain near zero, we'll see more and more cadets getting flushed down the 145 drain. Being a cadet only helps if you have non-cadets in class or your cadet seniority is better than the others.

It's a shame no one saw this coming early enough to kill the cadet program. Being able to count on access to unlimited enthusiastic applicants who would happily fly half our fleet for free and who will never ask for anything puts us in a terrible position for trying to achieve anything resembling parity with our peers.

At other places management might not ruthlessly take advantage of this situation, but here... well, every month a greater and greater proportion of our flying is done by reserves (who have essentially no protection in our crappy CBA), every month the schedules get worse and worse, and the hotels get crummier and crummier. No end in sight.

Cyio

Falalalalala lalalala la

Theaveragejoker

Dang, I thought we were disgruntled over at Piedmont. But y’all have cause.
Best of luck at the table.

MochaSwirl

The FO I flew with Last night was a 2017 hire that was in the cadet program.

He was told by the recruiters that all the cadets would get the 175 no problem. Not one single person in class he said got the 175 and all got the 145.

He’s currently on forever reserve in DFW after displacing from ORD and guess when his flow is?

Sometime late 2026 with hopes for January 2026 due to flows and attrition.

A shame what’s going on here.

chrisreedrules

7-8 years to flow isn’t bad historically. Those flowing in 5-6 years (which is not the, “norm”) from the WOs simply timed things well. Nothing more, nothing less. It takes the average pilot 5-6 years to become competitive to be hired at a legacy anyway. Anyone coming from a 1,000-1,500 hour background to the regionals right now should expect it to take 5-8 years to move on IF there are no industry hiccups etc. Mid 2020 will be their time to get on at a legacy and they’ll be in the middle / on the backside of the retirement wave. Timing is everything.

UncreativeUser

Wow the first logical post I’ve seen here in a while


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rld1k

Except you're paying 20k a year for the privilege of possibly flowing if mgt feels like it 2+ years after your peers were already hired ots, if you wait. If not then you just pay 20k a year for nothing.

MochaSwirl

7-8 years to flow may not be bad historically, but let’s not forget and take into consideration that recruitment is blatantly lying to cadets and recruits that they will get 175’s and flow in 5.5 years.

The true time table is exactly that 7.5-8.5 year flow which is far more than 5.5.

My problem here is with recruiting selling and telling blatant lies to prospects and we wonder why we can’t get better compensation.

Every fairly new guy I fly with felt as though as they’ve been lied to and/or swindled and that’s what my main concern is and what needs to be brought to light.

I can’t even be bad at the ones coming in, granted they could do more research of course, but they’re being led as they were blind sheep.