What’s the point of FLOW?
#332
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,284
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To clarify, are you going on record as saying they weren’t responsible for the misalignment?
I’m not asserting that they were at all, but from the radar track they made two IFR approaches that both seem equally laterally displaced from the localizer. Can you identify what DID cause the displacement? Because it - you know - would be nice to know.
But no, cell phones certainly didn’t force them to land without positively identifying the runway, that seems pretty improbable. But something must have caused the misalignment.
I’m not asserting that they were at all, but from the radar track they made two IFR approaches that both seem equally laterally displaced from the localizer. Can you identify what DID cause the displacement? Because it - you know - would be nice to know.
But no, cell phones certainly didn’t force them to land without positively identifying the runway, that seems pretty improbable. But something must have caused the misalignment.
bookmark this post when the report comes out and if I’m wrong, I’ll Venmo you the cost of a beer.
#333
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 12
#334
Well than the difference between you and me is that I am willing to consider EVERY possibility in investigating a mishap and you are willing to reject one without even examining it.
#335
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 103
From: Whale FO
A phone operating in the gigahertz range creating a stable offset to a modulated signal operating around 110 megahertz is as likely as winning the lottery 90 or 150 times per second.
#336
Prime Minister/Moderator

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,164
Likes: 803
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
But interference can occur not just at the resonant freq at the antenna, but anywhere in the system in any module which has circuits, electronic components, or even metal parts which happen to be sized right, even wires... lots of chips, wires and components in those systems, you only have to hit one of them to goon it all up.
#337
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 1,284
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george bush?
are you willing to investigate EVERY possibility or are you willing to reject “some” possibilities?
#338
Certainly if you deny the possibility of something and refuse to look for it, you will never find it. The aircraft mishap investigation training I had in the service encouraged us to keep an open mind as to possibilities. What did your mishap investigation training say about that?
#339
Stable is unlikely since the digital signal is not stable at all. My observations were always rapid, inconsistent fluctuations.
But interference can occur not just at the resonant freq at the antenna, but anywhere in the system in any module which has circuits, electronic components, or even metal parts which happen to be sized right, even wires... lots of chips, wires and components in those systems, you only have to hit one of them to goon it all up.
But interference can occur not just at the resonant freq at the antenna, but anywhere in the system in any module which has circuits, electronic components, or even metal parts which happen to be sized right, even wires... lots of chips, wires and components in those systems, you only have to hit one of them to goon it all up.
So ones right to “meh freedom” trumps safety. Turn off your phone. Don’t flaunt the rules. Again for the dense - I have issues with habitual rule breakers who think they know more than the rulemakers. Even if you do, you should keep the rules. It’s the culture of rule breaking that HAS contributed to accidents. There’s even a term for it. Normalization of deviance. Culture matters.
This is illuminating:
https://youtu.be/y3p-hGR3ZyY
as is this:
https://youtu.be/xtcsVZcuVqI
Now I don’t know if a cell phone interfered with the localizer on this 145 crash but it’s certainly possible. When you get low they start working.
The cell phone is just one example. We get guys in the cockpit on their phones all the time. There is a direct 121 reg that says you won’t do it and that I as captain won’t allow you to do it.
Culture matters. That’s all I’m saying. I’m not saying I’m better than anyone or that I’m some perfect person because I am not. But I wear my mask. I turn off my phone. I set an example of eye contact with the flight attendants showing I pay attention to the safety briefing when I’m sitting in the back. I try my best to follow the rules because it’s the right thing to do.
#340
I’m not sure the NTSB has the security clearances for Groom Lake but the Security coordinator there will verify that I’ve never been there so I can’t confirm or deny the alien hypothesis. And you can believe him too, I’ll vouch for him.
So why do YOU think they made two approaches paralleling the VOR?
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