He was a DFW guy and is flying a corporate jet for them. I’m sure he could get RW a one way ticket to Mars.

Big change from your pro flow tone back then to now goin to a bottom feeder ACMI hahahaha.

Dera sobered up after being drunk of kool aid as a new hire.

Back then he tried to talk people out of goin to ULCC and JetBlue and now he is on his way to the Mesa of cargo carriers 😂

Dera is a different person now. He was Envoyed and has seen the light. I see no reason to disparage him or the company he chooses to go too.

This coming for the guy who hung on at XJT for too long and came here as a DEC for the flow. I’m sure your time at Envoy has been less than desirable. The street captains thought they were going going to have a different type of life here, but quickly found themselves on airport standby every day and getting pushed down further and further because seniority rules, eventually losing their seats.

Besides, the Mesa of cargo carriers is SkyLease. So many dirt ball operators on 36th street that are far worse than Atlas. Western Global and National are far worse places to go for Dera.

FYI I sit airport standby at home since I live 18 minutes out, so it's not bad. My ride at Envoy has been great, I got 2 extra types here and unlike my ex former XJT colleagues I have a job with a flow in my back pocket and when I do flow I will still have a 30 plus year career at AA.
The $40k bonus was a heck of a weekend in Vegas, putting a shame to that movie hangover.

You’re my hero bro

I'm still pro flow. It guarantees movement at the top and fast seniority movement. It's also a great backup to have, if legacy airline is your end goal and DL/UA aren't calling. I benefited from it a lot. But as everyone who has flown with me knows, waiting for flow was never my plan.

It doesn't guarantee anything unless AA is hiring.

Have you looked at the mandatory retirements? (Much less the shrink that occurred the last year through early outs, etc.)

There is an ORD one heading there too.

Save fuel. Just go to the international space station. Then have RW do a spacewalk, without a spacesuit. 🤣

aewhistleblower claims he and most of the rest of the management is on the chopping block because of the bad press from CNN for the FAA letter. Much like the LA base, I’ll believe when it happens.

I bet aewb flows before that happens.

RW kept perpetuating that LA base rumor to new hires even after the plan was scrapped.

The CNN bad press is one of the reasons, there’s more into the story. I’m sure dera would love to chime in, after he’s gone.

I hope your bets are right!

I have nothing but respect for dera here. First of all, he came into ENY with a good attitude and I believe gave eny more than a fair shot at life. He represented himself well in the public forum while still having a brain of his own in private conversations. He caught flack for not immediately knowing what others with years of experience knew but he got there.

I wish you the best of luck. I wasn’t there long enough to get “envoyed” but I could see it coming. I just tried to keep a good attitude as long as I could because I can get really hateful to people like Todd and the other usual suspects. By the time I had my upgrade supper with RW and he made trash comments about spirit and people going there, I already had an interview lined up :-)

You got a dinner? I got the response of "we are too busy and there are too many of you upgrading to be able to have a dinner." Probably a good thing. I suspect RW takes his steak well done, only eats chuck steak, and covers it in Kroger ketchup.

Kroger? Aldi or save a lot

I don’t think I could have dinner with a pathological liar like RW. And if I did, I'd probably need lots of tums to digest all his lies.

i drank beer at the supper. Beer helps.

If you've been following it, you'd know it's in the end game over there. That said, even at current book, it's way better than being a commuter at Envoy... and if you don't mind the longer trips, with longer blocks of time off, then the QOL can be amazing.

I do 10 days away from home this month. Day 1 and 10 are both on duty paid travel days, leaving 8 days to work. I have 3 flights and 2 deadheads in those 8 days. My days off will be in Fort Worth, Salt Lake, and Ontario CA this this month. There is no crash pad, there is no jumpseating to/from work. We keep the air miles and most hotel points. If there's no Hotel van, or car service booked, they put on our schedule to use the company Uber account. If we're in an airport over 4 hours we use the company credit card and go to the admirals club. If we international deadhead over 3 hours it's business class or better, or you can take extra pay to ride coach. First year pay here is $124ph at a 64 hour min guarantee.... or $95.2k to start. Top step CA is $297ph. I've been home since the 21st of last month..... you? Try it before you knock it.

Dera and TC both made good moves.

I think the other part of it is cargo carriers that don’t fly their own paint are somewhat like regionals. Obviously Atlas has their own paint, but cargo carriers “borrow” call signs from FedEx or UPS. The model is the same, the pay scale is way better though. As far as stability idk if places like southern or atlas are too notch especially as Amazon brings in their own flying. This is just an opinion though and I’d like the discussion on this because the cargo carriers have always been an interesting route to take besides the LCC’s


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Close but no cigar, yes ACMI is built off of contract flying. Amazon is far from Atlas largest or profitable customer. It would be nice to keep Amazon but Amazon will not break Atlas either.....

4 day trips are long enough for me. I enjoy home way too much to be on the road in a germ infested hotel taking a toll on my health. I have seen first hand on how fast cargo peeps age. I think once the flood gates are open to the legacies these cargo carriers will be drone operation outfits.

It's hilarious to watch someone cite time away from home as a negative, then stay somewhere where you have to work more days. :)
Envoy=11 days off a month
Atlas/Kalitta/Omni=14+ days off a month.

Well with little kids (and some wives) it might be better to check in weekly. Depends on the family situation. When I was in a career place where ACMI was an option, my kids were too little for that schedule to be good for them. For me the total days off would have been about a wash (some seniority at the regional, and was driving to work).

I have a buddy there who hods a 60-day line and averages 14 days off a month. I guess it comes down to what you want and how you bid.

Different folks, different strokes. If you are someone that lives in a place with fewer commute options, being gone for a longer stretch, plus having the employer responsible for the commute makes for a better QOL. Or some people like having more of those days off together. Depends on one’s lifestyle and place in life. I’ve heard guys that flew night shift stuff that had younger kids worked better because they actually had more time with them when the kids were awake and they (the pilot) could sleep while the kids were in school.

One also has to look at your age and how long you have left in the game to decide whether giving up what seniority you have is worth starting over someplace “better”. Better is relative, not just which company, but when you were hired. Some places, like Envoy was for a while, even if you were hired at what could have been the “right time” if you ended up on the 145 instead of the 175, it was night and day different.

similar model, but not the same. They aren’t (in most cases) flying somebody else’s routes of another airline. They’re bidding the flying from the source in most cases. Instead of hundreds of people buying tickets on one flight, one customer buys the whole flight... Amazon, DHL, etc..... FedEx and UPS do hire some overflow but it’s not the majority.

A few ACMI don’t even do cargo at all.

I’ve been home since the 21st of last month, you? I don’t leave until the 14th.

It really depends on a number of factors individual to each pilot and family. For many, no commuting, no crashpads, collecting unlimited air miles, getting unlimited hotel points, having large chunks of time off to travel and see the world with family, and when you do go you fly on real tickets everywhere in first class and stay in hotels free.... has a value that unless you live in base at a LCC/legacy it just doesn’t compete.
I’m gone from home much less than I was as an Envoy commuter, with zero stress or aggravation. Zero unpaid time of my own commuting. I know what flight I’m leaving on and what flight I’m arriving on. I don’t even have an airport parking space anyplace. Hardest part of my job is doing laundry at some point during the trip.

we get 14-15 scheduled days off minimum, plus however many days you sit long call at home.

If you’re at Envoy and have plenty of TPIC time and nowhere near flowing I would also go to Atlas.

Yep. My kids are older but my wife would never put up with me being gone two weeks at a time. Back when I was junior and two-leg commuting to NY, I traded my trips around so that two trips were back to back. I thought it was a genius move to reduce commuting. Yeah, I'd have a longer stint gone but I'd have a longer stint at home too. My wife lost her **** over that. So no ACMI for me. Doesn't matter how much 'better' it is over there, I intend to stay married.

Happy wife, happy life

Envoy pilots get married? I thought y’all were just a bunch of weirdos posting Instagram pics with countless hashtags while uploading them from your mom’s apartment.