[MENTION=86152]mkitrn[/MENTION] at DFW the most junior fleet type as of 14/Apr is the ERJ-145.
So that you understand, the ERJ-175 is only senior there by 1.
DFW is the most junior First Officer base as of 14/Apr.
ORD is the most junior Captain base as of 14/Apr. 175 is the junior seat in ORD.


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it was still hilarious.....shot diet coke out my nose

So the question is how long would people think it’s gonna take for us to flow 300 pilots? With AA announcing hiring.

(serious question)

20 a month +/- 4 months as long as class sizes are comparable.

AA's hiring numbers I read said UP TO 300 this fall and 600 next year. Assuming they hit the max on the UP TO part, that sounds like 50 per month for AA. Someone more familiar with flow language in the contract can give better details but I'm pretty sure that flow rate is going to be less than 20 per month for the current flow group based on those class sizes. As for the group after that, there was some complicated formula that related to the size of Envoy's seniority list. Envoy is smaller now sooo....

Seriously? The3 AA WOs have 5200 pilots (counting those furloughed).And AA has down sized their fleet and deferred deliveries of new aircraft. They’ll be hiring some - but the numbers until they get more aircraft on property likely will be less than those retiring due to age 65 which is currently what? 540 this year?



Even if they didn’t do any military or other OTS hiring(and you know THAT isn’t happening) it still wouldn’t be quick.

My guess would be 2.5 years.
Six months until they start hiring then 150 a year.

The pilot who is 300 numbers from flowing, however, will go in less time than that due to outside attrition.

20 a month only applies to the L10-11 group. The post date of signing pilots only gets a maximum of 25% of AA’s hiring. So if they hire 600 in 2022 then envoy would get 150 for the year which is 12 most months and 13 for a few others.

Letter 18-01, section 5 for the reference. So flow will take a lot longer than planned.

so we’re just going to ignore that 300 number for this year?

Letter 19-04 has the table for the L10-11’s.

This was the gouge on hiring from the AA thread a couple weeks ago:



If you aren’t in one of these groups then you are apparently behind ~550-600 people, some of the furloughed will need new type ratings themselves since the equipment they once flew is now retired.

AA said they plan to hire 300 new hire pilots in Q4 2021. Approximately 60 of those new hire pilots hire at AA will be ENY flow though pilots. All that stuff you quoted above was posters spitballing.

uh....no.

that’s not the way math works.

what are you even talking about? There is no flow that could be “caught up”. AA flowed exactly the number called for in the CBA over the last year.

Retroactive flow, what a novel idea. You learn that in the cadet program.

you can make fun of him and be DB if you want, but you knew what he meant. It’s not a crazy idea and the union email had to be alluding to something similar or even a temporary increase.

idk about you guys but I was promised a 5.5 year flow by envoy and hired under that pretense. why let them off the hook? of course they'll have to catch up. they needed to catch up like 4 years of flows before covid. maybe they should just staple us

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

filler

Clown post 🤡

I understand the sentiment, but if what you were told is not in your contract that you signed, well what can I say. Why would aa want to basically want to take those flows that did not flow because there was no new hire class as per cba. Im just asking where you folks get these ideas, you think this is starbucks. Maybe they will, my money is on not, not to be an *** but don't see the upside for them. If you leave for elsewhere guess what the guy getting hired at envoy in 2 months will move up faster and flow faster and it makes the recruiters job real easy. But what do I know, not much.

This post is a joke... right?

RIGHT???

Guys that think they deserve some kind of retroactive flow fall under the same category as guys at mainline who think they should be able to flow back to Envoy instead of being furloughed. Please let us know what it is that you’re smoking so we can better understand your thought process.

And maybe smoke some of the same. It is the weekend

I think the root of it stems from idle conversation on our longer flights. At least twice I have heard someone say “wouldn’t it be nice if AA just took only flows for 6 months when they do finally start hiring again?” To be fair, their heads were technically in the clouds when the statements were made. In each case it was just harmless convo. Didn’t come off as serious.


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I know many of you guys are Texans accustomed to at-will employment and worship your employers on some level, and while I made my last post which some of you seem to be taking seriously in jest, if you really think it's that farfetched to hold their feet to the fire about their reckless flow promises, you should look into promissory estoppel. The last thing they want is us flying their beautiful airbii any sooner than is absolutely necessary to keep new suckers lining up in Irving, but I could see someone awarding us something.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...0b7bcbeb1f.jpg


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right and I can see apa just sit there and say, yep thats good with us, no problem.
you don't own apa seniority list,, if americam did what your suggesting the law suits against aa will be flying.
now back to that dream

H3ll will freeze over before RN and RW allow more than the absolute minimum required number of ENY pilots to flow. The problem wouldn’t be AA (who probably wouldn’t want only flow through anyway) or APA (who has no say in who AA hires). I don’t know anything about management at PSA or PDT, but ENY will only ever flow the minimum.

don’t think aa is wanting heavy flow but if that was the case don’t think RN or RW would really have a say they could be replaced probably within a matter of hours

That long
............

Neither do you. Never said I did. Nor was I “suggesting it”. I was hypothesizing where the rumor of potential increased flow was coming from. Nothing more. Reading comprehension is tough huh?


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Sure, everyone has a boss, and can get overruled. Based on historical precedent, I’d put the chances of that happening at between 0-1%.

Side note: The flow through agreement has been working exactly as it was agreed to over the last year. I don’t think anyone in management feels like flow through pilots are “owed” anything.

Reading comprehension no, but hypothetical dreaming yes. Must be tough to go through life like that.

The flow through selection site has been updated with the new flow locks. The July and October 2020 bids had the training freeze lifted, so no flow locks on those pilots.

It appears 4 pilots fairly close to flowing bid the 175 in February 2021 and will be locked until mid 2022.


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Including the former Chief Pilot in LGA who was so nice to all of the pilots who he mentored.

I hope Ferris Bueller is enjoying the heavy.

Only cost him a few hundred K of career earnings by the delayed flow.

You seem to not understand that I am not the one hypothetically dreaming. People I’ve flown with were. JC!!! Either you’re trolling me, or are really dense and missing details here. Who is your AME? And is he/she reasonably priced? Good availability? Might be good to have in my bullpen.


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Outsider here. I highly disagree. Thakooj was the whole reason I read the Envoy forum. You can’t not enjoy reading his material.