wow that's gold... Sure the 175 is nice but the goal for everyone should be to get in to the regionals and get out as fast as possible, not fly the shiniest jet.

What class was this? Not buying it.

Like I said in my previous post, nothing I could find to support this.

having flown both i'm going to tell you right now that there are absolutely guys who have flown and even upgraded successfully on the 175 who would lose their jobs on the 145

it's not a stick/rudder thing although apparently many of us can't land right. it's a complete lack of situational awareness and planning.

point being that perhaps some of these pilots know they're weak and know the airplane will take up some of the slack for them.

And yet you seem to be ignoring this.

When did Envoy have a class that was only 145s and all but two walked out and subsequently were given 175s??

At least those planes still had an autopilot. Strap on a Metroliner or a Jetstream for 6-8 legs and see how’d they do.

LOL at thinking the 145 is hard to fly. Get over yourselves. I have my C-172 pitch/power worksheet already filled out and calibrated. Just a couple adjustments and all my climb outs and descents in the 145 will be a peace of cake.

no no, thats not what i said lol

The e145 is hard for most cadets. They barely know whats going on in the e175. Procedures and system knowledge, what's that.

They’re pretty good at memorizing the study guide and that’s it. They can’t put two and two together when they’re flying the line.

Nope. There wasn’t a single class in 2017 that had less than about 20. Most were 20-30 or so. Looks like the cadets started getting first pick in second class of September 2017 and there was only a handful in each class at least through the end of 2017, so there was definitely no class that all but two walked out because they didn’t get the 175 and cadets wouldn’t have come to Envoy “expecting” the SNJ 175 until at least late 2017, maybe even early 2018 as cadets wouldn’t have found out and then taken a month or so to get a class.

Have their been people that leave because they didn’t get what they wanted. Absolutely. But as I said before the cadets were on the hook for money if they left and there was definitely no class that had a mass exodus.

Uh? Just fine actually. Dumb statement.

You’re right they’re worse than off the street hires are. Oh wait no they’re actually better because they didn’t get 1500 towing banners. I prefer flying with a kid from Riddle or UND any day because they actually have a clue what they’re doing, and they’ve spent years learning and preparing to be here as opposed to someone who dropped off skydivers for a year and studied the gouge to make it through.

if cadets can’t put two and two together to fly the 145 then your training program must be pretty awful. :rolleyes:

i have flown with 10,000 hr dash 8 captains on the 145 (boomers/gen Xers) whom I wouldn’t trust to manage a cup of coffee no less the jungle jet.

As a captain I’ve flown with new hire cadets who more than knew what they were doing.

All anecdotal I suppose.

There is a rising number of 3.5 stripers in the right seat who think they know everything.

No child left behind? How much older than these new hires are you? Not to sound like a jerk but if you really feel some kind of generational gap between you and your FO’s that you want to come on here and bash them so much, they’re probably looking at you wondering why you’re still at a regional.

Oh here we go generational gap, oh wait no one has to answer why they are still here, what should be asked why the cadets have no idea whats in the fom or there respective aom. Oh God help you if the autopilot or autothrottles are mel'd.

The lack of AOM knowledge is a reflection of the training department. AQP has enabled pilots to become lazy and not learn. How many new pilots could draw the hydraulic system and actually explain how it works? We are not AA and despite the dream to standardize everything with them, our training needs to be more robust because we are seeing a different type of pilot than them.

There is no valid reason to be able to draw a system. Nice try. When that was required people only really knew it for the month around the PC then dumped it as they flew the line for the next five months anyway.
Your entire library of manuals at home is now always with you in the cockpit to be factually referenced if you have a situation out on the line. This is progress.

Disagree vehemently. When "it" hits the fan is not the time to be looking up in an EFB how a system is laid out and operates. That's the time to be running the appropriate checklists, which BTW are designed to be run by somebody that understands the system. Not every event will have a checklist or memory item, and many events will be such that you need your system knowledge to not make things worse. If you can't be bothered to understand the systems on the ONLY type plane you are being paid to fly hundreds of passengers per day, then you have no business in the front end of the jet.


So on the E145, HYD SYS 1 FAIL with a L ENG FIRE EICAS pops on short final going into LGA, or even Key West... what about at 31L at JFK, any difference?
Are you landing or going around?
What systems are or aren't going to be available to you?
Do you really have time to look up the stuff on your EFB like you said?

They don't pay us enough to understand how the systems work on that level. Don't matter if we're carrying 10 or 300 people. Start paying us more and maybe we can learn the systems in depth.

Most unprofessional post of the year right there.

What? I have always looked at it of compensating me for what they ask me. The FOM or GOM will lay out what is it expected of you. That's what I do and not an inch more. I don't say hi to the TSA agent or gate agent since I'm not required to. Why do something if they're not going to pay you for it?

As my dad used to say, “It ain’t my yab, man.” What do you do? I put these nuts on these bolts. Others would say, I work on the assembly line making cars. Others would say I help provide mobility to millions of people.

All true, but it is your responsibility to know the fom and aom, if you can't comprehend then maybe run for president next election.

So in your mind not being able to diagram the system also means not knowing the system.
ok. I don’t agree with that either.

It's absolutely your responsibility to know your aircraft and how the thing works. Just knowing an EICAS message pops up isn't sufficient when you're on fire.

“When you’re on fire” 🔥 What sensational text.
Oh so now you just need to know the systems and no longer need to draw it? Any other amendments? Hey guy, what oil filter does this bird use?

yikes
 

This post makes me think i'm going to be afraid to put my wife and kids on a plane 15 years from now...... I see more road trips in my families future.......

This feels like troll territory, but I’ll bite...

A. You’re not “required” to say hi to anyone, it’s just courtesy. If you need to be paid to be courteous, you must be a treat to be around.

B. As for your comment on not bothering to learn systems, because they don’t pay you enough, I agree with Cujo, SUPER unprofessional. I’m guessing it’s not actually true, and you are just trolling, but if that really is true, you probably shouldn’t be an airline pilot.

You don’t just get paid to fly. We all love to fly. They wouldn’t have to pay me, even what ENY pays me to do it. You get paid to be a professional in addition to just having an ATP. If that means you have to occasionally study more than just the questions you know will be on the test... so be it.

I’ll also add that the training dept should require/encourage us to know our planes better, but that’s not an excuse.

How many documented cases are there of this occurring on the E145?

No trolling here sir. You're all over the place with this response. I never said I don't have systems knowledge. As mentioned, I know what the FOM and AOMs contain and expect me to know; this is what I am paid to understand, so I do no more than this.

More importantly, it's sad to hear you say you'd do this JOB for free since you enjoy flying that much. This attitude is what managment uses to Nickle and Dime us to no end because they know it's a passion we all share. They might say we're professionals, but I sure as h*ell don't feel like it when I see my paychecks.

This is where I think you are being unprofessional. If you agree to do the job, do it to the best of your ability. If you don’t think they are paying you what you are worth, don’t take the job.

As for flying for free... If I had all the money in the world, I’d still enjoy flying airplanes. The JOB part is flying where I’m told, when I’m told, being responsible for other people’s lives, being away from my kids, missing birthdays, etc. If the job description was “Whenever you feel like it, go grab a jet and putz around for a few hours with no responsibilities” then yes I’d probably do that for free.

Last I checked there’s No such thing as a FOM or GOM at Envoy... it been called something else for decades. As we and others have said, all regionals are not the same. You’ve proved it yet again. Which contractor outfit are you with?

If you can draw it, you know how it works. If you can answer questions, you’ve at least read the gouge, memorized answers, but may have zero actual understanding of the system.