This Union group is weak. We need guys who are senior cause it’ok always be like this with the turnover that’s bound to happen.


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Really, ATI? What’s your source? Hasn’t made a public comment.

dera 4 prez!

While I think that he would be a great person for the job, I wouldn’t be surprised if he is gone before he could do any good there and I don’t think he has the seniority to be a captain on this next bid to replace EM in his role although he is definitely more qualified than many (if not most) that hold the seat.

God, no!! He’s drunk of kool aid

JT for new chairman!!

the union has shut down a lot of BS company request by saying as long as the cadets program is sucking up money they won’t bend

Justin Timberlake? Or JT the former LGA CA rep who is on the verge of flowing as soon as this thing starts back up? We need a lifer to run the show. Someone who isn’t part of the revolving door and has a long term interest in making Envoy a decent place to be.

let's poach anne from the company to run the union

she's a kind soul I'm sure she's sick of being the company's hitman in dfw

If we need a lifer than I would like to nominate buddies8, he won’t take any sh*t from nobody.

seconded

Filler

and rightly so.

you want to hang out with my wife
I just get up and go for a drive.

Everyone one of the cadets should have immediately had their contracts torn up and should have been released. The fact that Envoy kept them through the furlough and them let them skate on over to PSA should be a message to every potential pilot who wants to come here. Envoy is willing to give pilots on property the shaft but will continue to support a pet project of flight ops.

Also, I’m pretty sure Buddies8 has less than a year until he retires. That wouldn't help us very much.

The problem here is the company, it doesn’t matter who our chairman is. Envoy has a terrible culture, and management doesn’t want to change that. Heck, we can’t even get a cost neutral negotiation contract done, the negotiations have stalled. I’d much rather have someone looking for the flow than trying to make envoy a better company, cuz that ain’t happening! How many times have we tried new reserve rules?(oof, that one is old) AIP?(shall not be forgotten) Unpaid learning hub training? New pay rates that were delayed for months and we never got any interest out of that? Calling people to volunteer for flights and giving them a MA for not taking a reassignment? And the list goes on... As I said, the problem is not in who the new chairman is, but Envoy management.

Ah, you’re correct. More than a year but not by much. I didn’t know you were so old buddies8! Those drives are going to become more frequent.

Well the Commander has 5 years left, how about him! He’s always a bundle of joy to interact with. Stone cold face during negotiations.

There are still unfurloughed pilots awaiting training to go back to the line.

Flow ah yes, let negotiate everything away ( what little we have ) for more flow. Yes let's do that, I'm for it. I need a laugh from the side lines.

Like there’s something we can negotiate here. We can’t f* win

When there is no clear path to a victory, sometimes its better to sit there an do nothing.

that doesn’t really address his question about CJO’s though, does it?

Eventually they’ll likely reach out to you to see if you’re still interested, I’d assume that comes sometime in the coming months, wouldn’t surprise me if they have some kind of refresher interview just to see where you’re at. Pilot hiring is coming back sooner than later, envoy just seems to be dragging their heels more than other carriers. Doesn’t negate the fact that hiring will likely return to someone resembling 2019 at some point this year. We’ll probably figure out more this month.

I have to disagree with the hiring coming back sooner rather than later. Like I said in my previous response, all the people that have been benched, however many of the approximately 225 come back, will need quite a bit of training time. Yes, there will be SOME hiring after that. But just like every other carrier, Envoy will be smaller. Roughly 80% of what it was. They are basically attritting down to that size. When they start hiring again, it will be for that continued attrition, with no real indication of growth for the foreseeable future. The whole industry will need to really start moving again to see the kind of attrition they had in the past. And a smaller Envoy also means less flow as flow is based on number of pilots on the seniority list. That is all part of the attrition-hiring equation. I just don’t see the kind of numbers Envoy was hiring for some time. I mean they were telling people to go to PSA.

The telling people to go to PSA seemed to have stopped, and speaking of PSA it took them 3 months to get over 700 pilots back through trading again. I think we can handle 224 in a timely manner while starting ground schools up again. Time will tell but from what I’m hearing it will be sooner than later. I don’t think we’ll quite be interviewing new candidates necessarily however cadets and those already with a CJO will likely be in a class this summer. But I think we’ll have a better understanding of that this month sometime.

Also should note, AAG were the ones who wanted some cadets at PSA since they needed the staffing and already dished out the money. Envoy obliged but controlled that number it seems. They didn’t send over too many just those with relatively high time.

Fair enough. I don’t know the numbers, but I don’t think PSA had 700 come back. That was the problem and why they needed the new hires so quickly.

This right here, a lot of those 700 guys and gals have moved on at PSA.

They didn’t. We also have no idea how many of our furloughs will come back.

Yup. There is also those on LTLOA. I think that group has a bigger bunch that won’t come back. But until it happens no one really what that number is.

Yes this is right, and I knew that I guess it just didn’t cross my mind at the moment. But I guess point being they still had about double the amount we do.

To put that in perspective, 25 pilots wasn’t even half a class in 2016/17/18.

True, but the point being 25 is a drop in the ocean.

the poor babies. How demoralizing. Then the company and union screwed all new hires for the selective babies. The humanity.

Only when the training machine is running at full tilt. How many instructors went back to the line and PSI are gone? Sim space has been a limiting factor in the past, but the ‘Voy is always slow to get the ball rolling so I wouldn’t be surprised if the classes are smaller for a while. And I still don’t believe there will be the movement to require those numbers to be hired for some time. Remember fleet is only 80% what it was and AAG had been more than happy to farm out flying to Skywest and Republic.

are you serious

Yes, he’s serious

seems like that would follow you around. Hopefully none of them were THBoobs famed cadets who were promised the 175?!

To be fair, at least for 2016 and early 2017, they were only offering DFW on the 175. So if you wanted to be in DFW and all the 175 slots got taken, I could see people leaving for another airline simply due to base.

Again, not something I would have recommended but it could have been more than just the plane for some.

There were some very small classes in 2016. But there was also at least one large ALL 175 class as well early in the year.

The cadet program wasn’t a big thing in 2016 and cadet status didn’t play into seniority until probably late 2018.

There was a class that would have had cadets with first choice that was all 145s either late 2019, maybe very early 2020, but “all but two” didn’t walk out. Might have been a couple that did, but if they were cadets, they would have been on the hook for some money.