AVERAGE credit has been running somewhere between 73-75 with days off averaging 13-14. It varies from month to month, base to base and plane to plane, but those averages have been holding with the recovery. Probably a bit better pre pandemic.

The other thing that is rarely mentioned is number of lines verses pilots. Since I don’t have actual numbers, I’m going to just say indications are that Envoy does carry a deeper bench of reserves. That in turn really lowers averages for number of days off, but slightly increases credit, since reserve is 11 days off and 75 hours.

None of the AAG regionals really “pick” the flying they do. Yes, they do have some input, but the reality is AAG bean counters decides who flies what. Does Envoy get the worst flight file? Does seem that way, but without the whole picture of ALL the regionals available, you’re making some wild swings.

PBS isn’t going to change any of that. It will benefit the senior pilots and hurt the junior ones, just like any system of bidding. The same sequences that go into lines will go into the PBS pot. Those juicy sequences will be picked up by the senior guys and the cr@??y ones will be left for the junior pilots.

Yes, without rigs / min day or some other forcing function I expect schedules to remain excruciatingly unproductive.

Yep this. Ease of commute trumps all else IMO.

This is 100% a middle finger to all current pilots, update the apps and get the F out

Envoy no longer promises a # of years to flow on their website or recruiting material? Did the lawyers finally realize recruiting has been lying this whole time?

Then again, how many current pilots at Envoy have received a bonus? Not saying it was right then and it still isn’t. If Envoy, previously Eagle, took care of the pilots they already have, they wouldn’t run as many off as soon as they do and they wouldn’t have to worry as much about new hires.

Currently mulling regional offers.

I'm not chasing metal or pay at this stage in my career, and I am not putting any eggs into the flow basket or even glancing at the signing bonus that EVY is offering.

What are the odds of a new hire in the 145 getting based in Dallas, fresh out of class? What's the seniority in each base? I can't seem to find an up-to-date list of Junior FO bases.

Thanks

There’s a lot of flux at the moment that’s going to make it an issue to give exacting details. That said, if things settle down to pre-COVID type of movement, you will not get 145 Dallas in class, you will likely be able to bid for and be awarded Dallas before finishing training, you will spend a few months in your original base before finally ‘flowing’ to Dallas.

But our fleet makeup and bases are different now so I don’t know how closely post COVID movement will look like pre-COVID movement.

check the class drop thread for live announcements of current new hire assignments

Look at the Class drop list thread for trends. Most of those are furlough/inactive returnees. But it can go in any direction from class to class.

Last I saw on here the first class of all new hires is supposed to be late August. Cadets will get first pick of NEW HIRES, but the few cadets getting classes now are behind those current employees returning. Don’t know what the projections are for time to get a class date and there are probably quite a few in the pool, so things can change.

Appreciate the detailed response. I wouldn't mind that kind of timeframe. I'll talk to my recruiter today and see if I can get a better idea. They told our interview class yesterday to expect a class sometime in October!

Thanks I'll do that. My interview group was told to expect a class in Late September or some time in October so I'm hoping that holds true. Beats waiting till February for SKW

Yeah. But are you sure?

Lord knows, the faster class is killer in terms of seniority and progressing towards an upgrade. I'm not convinced at all by the flow, so I plan on getting in and getting out, regardless of where I go

Random people in an anonymous internet chat is the second worst place to get reliable info on an airline. Recruiters are by far the worst.

That said, as mentioned above, you should be able to get DFW based as an FO in fairly short order. There is projected to be lots of movement on both aircraft so I’d be surprised if it takes more than 4-5 months for you to get DFW. It would likely be less.

Things can always change of course.

Definitely agree with you there, I'm basically in the data acquisition stage, regardless of veracity. I'll put it all side-by-side and make a more educated decision between the offers I have. Regardless, I take everything I hear with a grain of salt!

That's good to know about the movement within the airline. In your opinion, how does that movement affect upgrade times? Thanks

a bit tongue in cheek, as I worked for envoy and didn’t absolutely hate it but…. Even though they have a lot of goobers, SKYW might be a better shot right now than eny. Even with that 6 months considered.

do what you want and obviously what’s best for you, but go where you will hate life the least, should you get stuck there longer than you intended.

Oh well. Just my opinion. As they say, opinions are like (you know….. the thing)

Appreciate the advice! Got a lot to think about in the coming weeks

I think upgrade times across the entire regional industry are going to be way shorter than they should be. ENY will be no different. If I had to guess, I’d say it’ll be back to “as soon as you get your 950 hours” by the time you are ready to upgrade. That is a WAG of course.

To me, and I wish I'd known this before I interviewed at the regionals, the biggest difference between SKYW and us is that the SKYW people walk around with smiles on their faces. Everyone here is pretty miserable, rock bottom morale, sitting in our dead silent crew room pulling their masks up whenever someone new walks in. Plenty to speculate about here, a lot of people suggest that it's kool aid drinking over at SKYW and maybe it is to some extent but it's also something else. As an Envoy pilot I'll tell you, it's fatiguing always working with people who hate their jobs.

“Beatings will continue until morale improves!”

Love, Management

Also known as ”We’re not happy, til you’re not happy.”

Well first of all stop hanging out in the Crew Room, this should help improve you’re mental health. Have your tried meditation, or a warm cup of tea?

I pass through to get to the toilets.

My mental health is immaculate, get out.

Any chance for a new hire to be based at MIA? Can you request it?

There's a good chance now, but you'll have to be in the top of the class in terms of class seniority. It's a 175 only base, so if you get the 145 you will be permanently seatlocked on the 145 until upgrade, making it essentially impossible to ever see Miami as an FO.

To give you an idea of how fast things change around here though, the simple phrase “175 only base” would have turned heads just 9 months ago.

Thank you for your responses. That's correct. I only saw ENY 145s at MIA before RPA left.

not really. There will likely be 145 displacements. That should open things up some too.

Not likely. There is no reason to think there will be large scale displacements anytime soon. There are also lots of midrange or even senior FOs that want the 175 either for MIA or QOL. They would scoop up (PDIS) any displacements that happen. If you get assigned the 145 in training now, you’ll likely be on that airframe for most/all of your time as an FO.

We have 7 E170s on the way (to ORD for now). SkyWest has 21 CRJ7s on the way (DFW, ORD and PHX) and that’s not including all their CRJs in LAX that will be moving back east in the next year as their 175s come in.

That’s a minimum of 28 65 seaters that will enter service (more likely 35-40) and their target flying will be what we do with the 145 now. The 145s will probably start to be retired pretty soon, so there very well could be displacements.

I can’t even count anymore how many times I’ve been told that the 145/140’s are on their way to the scrap heap. This time is different… yep, heard that countless times too. I’m not saying it won’t happen this time, but I certainly wouldn’t take that as a given for transferring off the 145.

Even if they do decide to start shrinking it again, they could easily shrink the pilot group through attrition.

Agreed. We're really just talking about FOs being displaced for the purposes of this discussion and I'd be willing to bet if they did start retiring the 145s or sending them elsewhere in any way, I bet it will be a slow enough process that FOs will be upgrading out of the airplane enough to not need FO to FO seat displacements.

Think about the CRJ. Those were “going away” for a long time. Until it got down to the last 10 or so, they didn’t displace anybody.

I’ve been here for 4 years and I highly doubt I’ll see American before 2027

sarcasm..


//

Displacements from the right seat of the 145 have gone very senior through proffers.

2024 is (was) the year for the EMB's. That hasn't really changed from even the bankruptcy days when they had to open their books. I'm sure that part (year) has been mentioned publicly in the distant past. Not sure if I can say more due to NDA. Without a clear okay from legal, I won't go into detail. Besides, their plans do change a little over time and I'm sure it's changed some since 2016. Covid may have made that more financially feasible to do sooner, with the glut of good used aircraft on the market cheap.

Shrinking isn't the plan, replacing is. The replacing will mean displacements. The shrinking comes later from the pilot shortage.... along with consolidations, mergers, buyouts and other messy things.

They weren't in a pilot staffing problem at that time either.
I'd be willing to bet they will ask for an LOA giving them some relief on displacement bidding. Something like only those actually being displaced get to bypass seat locks and such.

What will you get in return? Who knows; 5 extra seats in every new hire class? Costs them nothing, helps recruiting, helps movement, helps careers. Get rid of the monthly language and just go with percentage of each new hire class. Eagle/Envoy used to be 50% of each new hire class, and that got given away. monumental loss. Tell them you want the first 50% of every new hire class position. Throw in fixing reserve too while your at it.

Knock off the behind the scenes in the dark piecemeal LOA's that are the band-aids THEY need, while doing little to nothing for the line guys. Just say NO, until you start getting stuff of substance. You've tried the piecemeal stuff the past 6 years; it hasn't worked very well.