That was the big announcement? Hopefully no one was holding their breath over that one.

 

There is NO WAY anyone could say this with certainty. Anyone who does, most certain doesn't "get it".

It seems this generation is more adept at cashing checks they haven't received yet and become upset when they bounce. If only subsequent generations learned from those who existed in past ones would true knowledge and understanding occur. Instead, we just get another sad show.

Your first sentence is a disclaimer that you have no factual basis to project anything and then the second is worded as a statement of certainty in complete opposition to the first. It would be more accurate if you inserted the words "I believe..." before the word "upgrade". Envoy will have to remain its present size to produce 270 upgrades this year and 600 (300 flows/300 leaving Envoy for elsewhere) next year and not shrink, yet I've heard nothing about not shrinking.

I guess I don't understand your numbers. They all seem to be based on Envoy NOT shrinking (which has YET to be announced) and a demonstration of bringing in 270 pilots this year and 600 next year as well 50 per month to get that 2006 hire to AA by end of next year and a 2010 Envoy hire to AA by end of 2017.

 

So whats the fleet plan going to be? Still NO mention of C7 transfer delays.

smoke and mirrors...

Good Luck!

 

Yup. Just as suspected. An easily crafted letter of hopeful "projections". No different then the one penned in the early 2000's regarding Letter 3. I have no doubt Mr. Wilson wants to keep the Envoy ship steaming along as best he can, but AAG hasn't made any commitments to Envoy beyond what is already known.

What about the announcement Envoy will not shrink below 200 airframes and maintain current size. What about the announcement that Envoy will increase hiring to cover 50 pilot a month attrition to AA and elsewhere ?

Again, I see no COMMITMENTS, only hopeful PROJECTIONS.

 

What would you like to hear, kiddo?

That Envoy has been over 60% of all new hires at AA for the past 2 years? Or how a new hire at Envoy today will upgrade in less than 2.5 years and flow to American within 6? With no interview, unlike PSA where it takes 20 years just to interview.

We have been saying these things not for PSA trolls like you but for new hires trying to decide where to go. But that's fine. Anybody who goes to PSA or anywhere else today will be making a lateral move to Envoy in about 6 months to a year when the PROOF of all we have been saying begins to materialize.

If new hires don't want to listen that's fine..they will waste their time and potential seniority here at Envoy because they were lured to PSA with false promises of PIC time..as if PIC is what is needed to get to mainline these days. FYI: it's not

 

Gee, based on the numbers you've been quoting here, it sounds exactly as if YOU wrote that letter. I can only come to the conclusion you and Mr. Wilson are very tight. Is it proper for a union rep to be so cozy with management considering the hardships being inflicted on the Envoy pilot group ?

Seems an improper contradiction to me, anyway. Reminds me of a recent union group there that was shown the door.

 

They don't publish their fleet plan. You have to figure it our based on transfer schedules, SEC filings and other data. The reason for that is obvious. The CRJ transfer schedule on the PSA website is already the second transfer schedule, and now it's changed again such that Envoy needs to begin upgrading FO's to Captain. The upgrades are flow driven, not growth driven, and will continue long after other places stagnate, especially non-wholly owneds that don't have the flow to add to regular CA attrition.

What do you mean, you see no Commitment?
The commitment is 50% of every AA new hire class; and as you've seen we're doing well above that the past few years. Hate them all you like; their plan is working exactly as they said it would.

It's a good time to be an Envoy pilot

 

Using contractual requirements as the basis for the math, and what past performance of it has been is going to be the same regardless of who does the math.

 

I think non-Envoy pilots would be smart not to bite at this latest carrot just yet (and if any airline has a history of cultivating enticing carrots to pilots over the last 19 years, it's this one). Again, so far ALL that has occurred regarding the future is PROMISES. Here's some facts;

Envoy has flowed X pilots to AA for the combination of two reasons. First, AA has been hiring (more modestly as of late though) and second, Envoy has been legally REQUIRED to flow the number of pilots it has over the last two years or so as part of the 824 grievance award. If AA is hiring (they are), Envoy management has NO choice to move these pilots to AA. HOWEVER..........once those 824 have flowed (500 or so to go), it becomes more of a contractual flow (the "protected pilots") and then the requirements can be altered or possibly even voided at some point in the future due to any number of scenarios including, but not limited to merger or even liquidation of Envoy.

Soon, it seems obvious that flow-throughs will be standard in the industry as all three legacies will have no choice but to adopt them for competitive reasons to protect their mainline feed.

 

The only reason the CR7 transfer schedule changed was because PSA was awarded more CR9 that will begin delivery in November of this year. There is nothing more to it than that.