Inadvertently he hits some truths, but the error in his beliefs is that Envoy will be the one carrier that is immune from the very truths that are evident in his portrayal of the industry. Pilots will indeed be a "currency" of the future (they are right now) as his beloved Cujo states, but that's not Cujo's revelation, simply an obvious by-product of supply and demand. Envoy WILL shrink and that's confirmed by management by their affirmation they will upgrade only HALF the number of pilots at Envoy vs. those projected to flow. A shrinking carrier cannot support an upgrade mill nor a flow-through scheme and just as he states, one shouldn't fall for the quickie upgrade trap and Envoy's PROJECTION of 2.5 years to captain is just as much an upgrade "trap" as everyone else who makes a "projection" of the future.

By the same token, one shouldn't fall for the "flow-through trap" either as that is a sibling of the upgrade trap, at least presently at Envoy. Piedmont is now hawking their own snake oil, but it hasn't reached the point of being a pyramid scheme whereby some of their pilots go out on a PR tour to lure in the next layer to support the pyramid.....at least not yet. When a valuable commodity goes into play, it will almost certainly be artificially inflated and exploited in the hope of selling it and pilots will soon be no different.

The only fact right now is that Envoy is finally first to something, that being the first to exploit the commodity of the entry-level regional pilot and its prudent for ANY pilot to sit back and think about that BEFORE they choose to become that exploited commodity.

 

Anyone know anything about the EMB145s that are supposed to go to TSA? Heard that Envoy may not give those erjs away.

 

There are 5 already on property.

 

Your lack of basic knowledge is simply astounding. We don't have to be captains to flow. Our whole list could flow 3 times over before you're even scheduled for an interview.

You sound like a newbie yourself.

 

Without a significant number of replacement pilots that only means Envoy disappears. That's not the plan, but Wnvoy wont get that replacement requirement, so that means there's another plan that will almost certainly benefit all equally.

 

How can you look at yourself in the mirror and believe what you just said. Who then will sit in the Captains chair at Envoy if FO's are allowed to flow out of there in mass?

Newbies pay attention here. This is where the snakeoil comes in.

 

My god, you're dumb. I sure hope nobody is taking any sort of advise from you. As much as I disagree with someone like eaglefly's opinions as to the future of envoy, at least he has some experience to back up what he is saying. You are just 100% clueless. Honest question, how old are you?

 

If a super quick upgrade to move onto spirit, jetblue, or any other non-legacy airline is what you're looking for, don't come to envoy. If you want a pathway to American then the two places to look at are PDT and envoy. The problem with PDT is that they are going to be flying an outdated airplane that would be the first on the chopping block in an economic downturn or if oil prices go up.

The 6-year flow is very likely, so if you can put up with 6 years at a regional, then envoy is the place for a new-hire to go.

Personally, if I were new to the industry, I would be ecstatic to put in 6 years at a regional and then move onto the largest airline in the world (and their pay rates) rather then a short regional stint followed by a career at a LCC, ACMI, or foreign airline.

 

We have 350 captains at the top of the list who have bypassed the flow.

Theoretically if we couldn't find a single warm body to come to Envoy, we'd shrink to 40 E-175's. The lifer captains would occupy most of the left seats on property and the FO's would do a short stint here and flow (the smaller our airline, the quicker the flow).

I seriously doubt this will be the case, as AAG has shown they will give the airplanes to whomever can keep them flying.

We're not saying come to Envoy because it's a pyramid scheme, we will flow whether they come or not. I'm just simply trying to let the newbies to the industry know this place has turned around. If all you've heard about Envoy is what's gone on the past few years, it's been a nightmare place to work. It's not anymore, and is quickly becoming one of the better places to be.


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Bingo. Either way, staying large, or shrinking small...

It's a good time to be an Envoy pilot