Eaglepilot84

Well that was just about the biggest load of crap I've ever read. We have some of the worst work rules in the industry and even then our contract isn't followed. The flow only works when management wants it to and right now they've made it clear that they intend to only send the bare minimum, even in our severely overstaffed situation.

FourPutt

You have the worst work rules of the 3 AAG wholly owned regionals, I've read all 3 contracts. Not even close to the best, that award goes to LXJT or AWAC. Do recruiters get extra $ for posting bs on here?

snippercr

Ohhhh, eaglefly! Whatcha think??

N927EV

LOL, sure. Whatever you say, ric.

eaglefly

Obviously for some, fantasy is still alive and kicking. Most of the moderates aren't buying that manure anymore and even a few hard-core Kool-Aid guzzlers are starting to see the light or lack of it.

I did chuckle reading it though.

cr700

I'm just trying to help answer the new hires question on here a few pages back. He was concerned about the viability of the 2 1/2 year upgrade and 6 year flow.

I'm just trying to allay those concerns. For some detractors, Envoy will never be good enough. That is until they are sitting in the right seat of some contractor regional as they see their Envoy buddies moving over to AA one after the other.

It's been beat to death here but the math and projections put out by the company actually work. Do you think they would actually advertise a 2 1/2 year upgrade and 6 year flow to AA if it weren't actually the case.

It's also my understanding that the lack of new hires is simply a case of many not making it through the interview. It's an AA interview after all as it will be your last interview before you retire. Obviously, the new hire poster a few pages back is AA material so he need not worry.

I would say to the new hire. Big things are happening here and it's moving fast. Be glad that you got on when you did as your ticket to an AA jet in under 6 years has already been punched.

Eaglepilot84

You sound about as clueless and out of touch with reality as when Ric told our MEC that he thinks there is nothing wrong with the current state of the company.

I was cautiously optimistic the company would follow the flow without violating it as it is in both parties interest to do so, however I was unfortunately mistaken. If they won't follow it now, then why on earth would they follow it when we go from over staffed to under staffed (or dare I say "properly" staffed)? Riddle me that!

ag386

I am in complete agreement. When I stated this several months back, I was flamed and told that I didn't know anything. Several on here were more concerned with my identity than the message I was putting out. They believed I was just spreading flamebait.

Well, it looks like what I saw the company doing has actually happened and the hard core kool aid guzzlers haven't said much here lately.

I'm sorry for the Envoy guys. I was just trying to say what I believed was going to happen when I was posting this previously. Fortunately, I've been able to move on. In my last days at ENY now.

cr700

If you were flamed over this then it was for good reason. If you are leaving then you just gave up your spot at AA. I don't know where you are going but I can't figure out why you would give up a seat at the largest airline in the world. Without even having to interview no less. Some people just don't get it.

Bob Loblaw

From a Union Email:

Fact Checker
In order to meet Captain Wilson’s 2.5 year upgrade plan a new hire pilot’s relative seniority needs to go from 0% to approximately 40% in that time frame. Mr. Wilson’s announcement of this plan was made May 29, 2015 and the following focuses on a pilot who we will call, “First Officer Charlie Bucket”, hired immediately after the claim was originally made. We used the assumptions of the most junior CA being at 40% relative seniority (as it is now) and the airline staying the same size as it is today.



When we compare our 7-15-2015 Official Seniority List with the latest official Seniority List from January, we are able to get a sense as to where we started, where we are, and where we are headed. 



A 1.33% relative seniority rate of change per month (40% total increase required dived by 30 months) is required on day one of training for a new hire to upgrade in 2.5 years at any airline where the junior captain is around 40% seniority like we find at Envoy. Since the announcement, Charlie Bucket has seen a relative seniority increase of 4.08%, which is approximately 0.68% per month, approximately half of what is required. Due to this stagnation, FO Charlie now has some significant catching up to do to attain a 2.5-year upgrade. Every month that goes by, it becomes more and more difficult to attain this goal.

In order to maintain a 1.33% rate of change Envoy would need to hire 805 pilots by the end of 2017. 34 new hires per month will be required, at a minimum, moving forward.



We hired 88 in the last 6 months of 2015.

These numbers take an assumed number of pilots we send to AA and average attrition relative to Charlie Bucket’s seniority into account.



The management of Envoy is ready, but AAG does not seem to be interested in allowing the necessary investments and improvements that would make our carrier competitive in comparison to our peer airlines. We quickly need to see announcements that would truly excite a new hire into choosing Envoy over an airline that offers faster upgrades, higher pay, and geographically varied bases.

We are extremely receptive to helping management improve the attractiveness of this carrier, and indeed have presented quality, durable recruitment and retention ideas that will both provide the necessary inducements for new hires to come here and existing pilots to stay here.