"Patience" has been preached there for decades. It's kinda like the plaque that says "Free beer tomorrow".

 

First, it is beyond reason why any of you listen to this guy. He doesn't even work here! He "claims" to be at AA and even if that's true, why does he constantly post here and bash Envoy?

You want numbers? Well, here you go. AA is projecting to hire 750 this year. That will be 375 flows for 2016. For 2017, as of now, they are also projecting 750 hires. So, guess what? Another 375 flows. That's 750 flows between January 1, 2016 and December 31, 2017. We are right around 1900 pilots now. Do some basic math and that leaves you with 1150 pilots. So, we will have to hire 750 pilots between today and year end 2017. Actually maybe a bit less due to us settling in around the 1800 pilot mark.

We already know that the top 300 guys here aren't going anywhere. So, by the end of 2017, seniority number 1050 should be flowing or very close to flowing over. Someone in that seniority range was hired mid 2007. So that says to me with around 950 CA's needed, today's seniority 1950 will be close to upgrade at the end of 2017/beginning of 2018. Guess when #1950 was hired? Early 2014. So, essentially it's right there at the 2.5 year upgrade mark. The company has used this formula intertwined with staffing models and aircraft deliveries/parking, etc. Plus, we should be getting some 145's back from TSA and XJT when they go in for heavy checks.

Sixth grade basic math should bring you to the same conclusion. But I know you like to bash Envoy, so go ahead. You asked for the numbers and there they are. Black and white.

 

Baseless? It is a FACT that our paychecks are wrong. It is a FACT that the union came up with a pay auditing spreadsheet because the errors were so frequent and widespread by the crew services/paycomp department.

And why do we have that flow? It sure as hell isn't out of the goodness of Parker or Jerry Glass's heart. The ONLY reason we had any flow at all when US Air launched the hostile takeover of AMR was because of the grievance settlements from the Letter 3 debacle and the transfer of our aircraft off the Eagle certificate. Are we supposed to be grateful to Parker that he hasn't decided to ignore those too? Oh, that's right, there are MORE TWA PILOTS returning right now that never went though indoc at AA. The real issue here is that opportunity to flow is not everything. If you really are on the seniority list, then you should understand how people hired before 9/11 were promised 5 years to flow to AA, and instead have spent a majority of their careers here, trying to raise a family on "regional" wages. All it takes is some major world event or economic downturn (which looks like it's coming) and suddenly the flow music stops again. Excuse me for trying to learn from the past, and not wanting to be caught without a chair.

Dic Wilson told us all about the intense calculation process that went into that hocus pocus. The fundamental flaw is that it assumes that we will continue to get a steady number of new hires, because "the flow is enough." It completely negates human nature, which is being shown by all the other regionals that have drastically increased their starting salaries and are filling classes, while we continually fail to meet targets. The pipeline programs are a joke, because there simply aren't the necessary number of people in flight training due to the economic realities of the career, and people have finally realized it. Wishes are not horses sir.

Oh, and while we're at it, let's remember that a few years ago, there were 3,200 pilots on our seniority list. The ones that haven't flowed left because of the poisonous atmosphere created by Parker/Glass over the destruction of our contract. Maybe, just MAYBE, if management hadn't threatened to Comair II us, all those pilots wouldn't have left, and we wouldn't need all the new hires!!!

Propaganda? LMAO.

Of course you can't. You don't have to live under them. You haven't been denied a trip trade or reserve swap to go to a funeral when there are 100+ pilots in your status on reserve. You haven't had your long term training arbitrarily changed by the training department to when you had a trip to Bali planned for a family wedding. The rules are now broken CONSTANTLY. It doesn't matter even if we did have the best rules, because rules mean nothing now. It's been two years since 117 passed, and somehow all the other FFD carriers have made their reserve rules compliant...except for us. Tweaking...that's laughable sir. I have friends and acquaintances that are having marital problems because they've been on reserve for several years now and the ARE NEVER HOME. They are missing their kids grow up, and you think there's no problem. That says it all about the disconnect in this company right there.

First, you fail to mention the "metrics" imposed by Envoy management on the scheduling process. Second, the fact that CDO's back in the bids would greatly enhance productivity, and since we only get 6 PVD's per year again, there's no reason why Dic shouldn't agree to it, except for spite. Third, again since you don't have to live under it, it's no wonder you don't understand. There haven't been a mix of trips in YEARS now. As an F/O, for several years I did 85-90 hour two day trips, and picked up 1-2 OT trips per month. I was literally home every day! There was always a mix of 1-2-3-4 day trips. Now, it's all unproductive 4 day trips, uncommutable, with two days off in between. I never thought I'd see senior pilots bid reserve just for the line value of 75 hours and better QOL!!! The fact of the matter is that no one wants their job to be their entire life, but especially for commuters, that's what it is turning into. You think they should be grateful you're paying for hotel rooms, but you forget that pilot only had enough time at home to do laundry, pay bills, re-pack their lunch box, and try to get some sleep before their commute flight back to work. That's not a life, that's living to work. We are not automatons, we are people. Management has clearly forgotten that, but more importantly, doesn't care about the morale and welfare of their employees.

Things are not getting better sir. Many thought management would stop their punitive campaign once the TA was signed, but the opposite has been true. Despite our excellent performance numbers last year, we are still shrinking in terms of aircraft and block hours. Management continues to keep us in the dark, and most believe it is intentional to hide the inevitably of what's coming; a slow drawdown to PSA/PDT levels for yet another round of whipsaw-forced concessions for flow. The morale of the front line employees has been destroyed, and empty promises of some vague future improvement simply won't work anymore.

 

BWHAHAHAHA!

THE COMPANY IS ALREADY METERING THE FLOW BECAUSE OF "FUTURE STAFFING"!!! There's a good chance that we may not flow anyone (or very few) over summer because of returning AA pilots before their deadline. And you still think we're going to send 375 this year??? Words fail me.

 

As of now, I'm no longer Envoy. I'm not even paroled. I'm released!
One last time.

Hey Ric, WHERE"S THE BEEF?

 

Ric Wilson has even begun walking back his annual flow number, which is now down to "about 300". Perhaps the 375 flows for the year is the total flows for all WO, since Isom thinks the 50% number is applied to PSA+PDT+ENY, despite what our contract says. If we continue to meter at 30, the most pilots that can flow is 360, but only if we get 30 EVERY MONTH, which given the recalls, is unlikely.

 

First off, let me extend a "hello" to everyone. I've been quietly watching the debates for months now. Well before the flow has become tainted....again. I'm a 2007 hire, I've seen how great things were here.

Second, I agree. CR700's "sixth grade math" is flawed. Your 375 flows this year is obviously debunked right away because Envoy didn't flow 50%. It was 30. So my "sixth grade math" says 30x12 = 360.

Also, it's obvious you are in a cubicle because talk like this can only be fueled by ignorance of what it is really like out here. Keep that computer screen warm for us, CR700, and watch Envoy fall into further disfunction. (Remember, we don't have any impact on operations to justify profit sharing!!) You can thank your leadership for all their unrealistic interpretations of how to make a company REALLY successful. All they have done is made their spreadsheets benefit DP and the shareholders pockets. Instead of doing what's right of addressing their own workforce's needs and keeping their morale intact. Yeah, you're not AMR, Pedro. But you really had most of us fooled!

Third, I find eaglefly..... Entertaining.

 

Oh thank you envoy, for paying for my commuter hotel! Would've liked it better if my trip was commutable with my 4 on 2 off 4 on 2 off schedule. So according to Dic and his shadow puppet crj 700, we should thank them, that I can spend everyday at work and only be home never. Again, our schedules(at least on the 700) average around 73-75 hrs and 12 days off. We need 36 reserves available to get a pvd. Well f off Dic. And he wonders why we call in sick or all have FMLA.

 

I gotta give you some credit, it takes brass to come down in the trenches and argue with the rank and file. That said, I find your posts to be full of the same problems and issues that the employees have complained about for years now. You provide promises without specifics. Present facts without figures. Each statement comes loaded with "Trust Us..." ENY and AAG have a horrible track record with promises, most recently damaging with the "promise" that if we ratified the bankruptcy contract we'd be positioned to get the new 175's. Which went elsewhere. Then displaced us out of our bases. Yeah, people tend not to forget that.

Lets go through your claims:

Recent figures indicate we are getting some new people. Know who is getting the most? MESA. They're beating our pants off. Why? Upgrades and movement. Why do all the other regional airlines get the newhires? Upgrades and movement. Newhires are looking for the extremes. We used to have pretty da*n good QOL here, but we had slow upgrades, yet people came here. Why? Good QOL. Meanwhile our FO's are leaving because that QOL is gone. Stuck on reserve for years. No light at the end of the tunnel.

Now newhires care about the opposite extreme. FAST upgrade. FAST movement. They are willing to overlook crappy work rules in order to obtain that brass ring.

 

Envoy MEC should picket job fairs!