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Envoy Airlines Regional Airline

New Envoy Information

Old 05-22-2016, 09:30 AM
  #2951  
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Originally Posted by PilotJ3 View Post
Lol you're funny.

The 38 is not for the flow, is for the 2.5 for CA. Also, have they ever stopped the flow for other thing that is not returning furloughs or bankruptcy?

How's Allegiant??? Oh wait...that's right you probably don't even work there.
Check with your reps. To be specific, 38 new hires per month are necessary to keep the flow going. It's 26 upgrades per month for the 2.5 year upgrade to be viable. Neither are happening right now. Keep in mind, both of these numbers are required EACH and EVERY month going forward. I would suggest you remove your head from the sand and pay attention to what your union is saying if you are unable to discern this information for yourself.
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Old 05-22-2016, 09:36 AM
  #2952  
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Originally Posted by ag386 View Post
Check with your reps. To be specific, 38 new hires per month are necessary to keep the flow going. It's 26 upgrades per month for the 2.5 year upgrade to be viable. Neither are happening right now. Keep in mind, both of these numbers are required EACH and EVERY month going forward. I would suggest you remove your head from the sand and pay attention to what your union is saying if you are unable to discern this information for yourself.
It's 38 new hires per month to keep the flow going? Is that a fact? Can you provide evidence to back that claim up? Didn't think so.

I'm starting to doubt you even work for allegiant. Where are you based??
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Old 05-22-2016, 09:38 AM
  #2953  
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Union rep said flow is not dependent on newhires. Was very clear on that point.


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Old 05-22-2016, 09:44 AM
  #2954  
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On another note, I actually got through a few sentences of what the mentally unstable eaglefly said...is he now claiming that envoy will be declaring bankruptcy in the near future?! Hahahahahahhahaha now I've heard it all
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Old 05-22-2016, 09:58 AM
  #2955  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post
You mean the 824 ? They haven't stopped it, but HAVE slowed it to minimum rate possible and for really no other valid reason other then they can.

There are 5 Envoy pilots out there with reduced AA seniority (a tangible loss) by being withheld in March. The relationship between the Envoy new-hire rate and the flow is not direct, but definately interrelated. If fewer pilots are brought on board then are lost to attrition which includes the flow, Envoy shrinks. If Envoy shrinks aside from needing fewer captains which slows the upgrade, Envoy cannot cover its flying and then parks aircraft. If Envoy starts parking aircraft (which soon will simply HAVE to happen considering the present hiring/attrition metrics) then that will ensure the flow runs at minimum rate, but it also dramatically increases the likelihood that other measures will be taken to preserve Envoy's viability. What those are is yet to be seen, but Envoy will not flow itself out of existence.

If the situation gets bad enough and Envoy starts to mimic Republic, they could also play the BK card and you can be sure the protected pilot flow provisions will be among the first contractual items on the block for modification as the core of that problem will be the lack of pilots just like Republic. Prior to such a situation (which also would be useful for renegotiating asset leases and even scrapping some of them), I would assume Envoy management would sit down with Envoy ALPA and you guessed it, just like so many times in the past offer them two choices of bad and worse. Bad would be voluntary agreement to modify the flow provisions giving some say to ALPA and worse would be a free ride via a judge to gut it to whatever extent they see fit with Envoy ALPA powerless on the sidelines.

Envoy is running a staffing deficit each and every month and not likely to get ahead of that curve even with a good month every now and then. The clock is ticking and so far no one has come up with a successful strategy to reset it.
Im not liking this. Lots to think about the future of envoy.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:04 AM
  #2956  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly View Post
You mean the 824 ? They haven't stopped it, but HAVE slowed it to minimum rate possible and for really no other valid reason other then they can.

There are 5 Envoy pilots out there with reduced AA seniority (a tangible loss) by being withheld in March. The relationship between the Envoy new-hire rate and the flow is not direct, but definately interrelated. If fewer pilots are brought on board then are lost to attrition which includes the flow, Envoy shrinks. If Envoy shrinks aside from needing fewer captains which slows the upgrade, Envoy cannot cover its flying and then parks aircraft. If Envoy starts parking aircraft (which soon will simply HAVE to happen considering the present hiring/attrition metrics) then that will ensure the flow runs at minimum rate, but it also dramatically increases the likelihood that other measures will be taken to preserve Envoy's viability. What those are is yet to be seen, but Envoy will not flow itself out of existence.

If the situation gets bad enough and Envoy starts to mimic Republic, they could also play the BK card and you can be sure the protected pilot flow provisions will be among the first contractual items on the block for modification as the core of that problem will be the lack of pilots just like Republic. Prior to such a situation (which also would be useful for renegotiating asset leases and even scrapping some of them), I would assume Envoy management would sit down with Envoy ALPA and you guessed it, just like so many times in the past offer them two choices of bad and worse. Bad would be voluntary agreement to modify the flow provisions giving some say to ALPA and worse would be a free ride via a judge to gut it to whatever extent they see fit with Envoy ALPA powerless on the sidelines.

Envoy is running a staffing deficit each and every month and not likely to get ahead of that curve even with a good month every now and then. The clock is ticking and so far no one has come up with a successful strategy to reset it.
We went thru BK without the PP touched. Why? Because it CANT BE TOUCHED!!!

Do you think AAG will send Envoy Thru BK alone, their bigger WO feeder? Clearly another eaglefly If.

I know you will write probably 5-10 paragraphs of opinions next. So...see you next time, enjoy the crazy room.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:09 AM
  #2957  
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Originally Posted by Eaglepilot84 View Post
On another note, I actually got through a few sentences of what the mentally unstable eaglefly said...is he now claiming that envoy will be declaring bankruptcy in the near future?! Hahahahahahhahaha now I've heard it all
Mentally unstable ?

Hahahahahahahahaha, now I have heard it all before. Actually, I really HAVE heard this before and it's still funny every time I do.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:13 AM
  #2958  
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Its 38/mo to have the pilot hired first after Ric's proclamation to actually attain a 2.5 year upgrade.

That number assumes 20/mo flow.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by PilotJ3 View Post
We went thru BK without the PP touched. Why? Because it CANT BE TOUCHED!!!

Do you think AAG will send Envoy Thru BK alone, their bigger WO feeder? Clearly another eaglefly If.

I know you will write probably 5-10 paragraphs of opinions next. So...see you next time, enjoy the crazy room.
You're dreaming my friend. ANY, and I mean ANY aspect of your contract is fair game in Chapter 11. The Chapter 11 you went through previously was a piggyback of AA's and your issues then will have little resemblence to any future proceeding as a result of pilot staffing a'la RAH. AMR didn't touch your contract because your own Union fleeced it's own pilots into thinking there was an 1113 when there wasn't and that's how they got capitulations. See, they were privately given the choice of bad or worse and then gussied it up to convince YOU to accept bad, that being concessions outside of 1113. History can easily repeat itself if the right card is played against your Union again, i.e., bad or worse.

.....and the explanation of the reality you are in deep denial over only took 1 paragraph.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:17 AM
  #2960  
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I don't think Envoy will be subjected to a second bankruptcy. What I think will happen is the lack of new hires will eventually force the company to address the flow.

If you think it can't be touched, look at the 2000/2001 flow thru guys who actually had a seniority number but were stuck at Eagle for an additional 15 years. Yes, it was a different situation but AA/Eagle withheld these guys. If they need 1500 total to operate the airline, they will not continuously release additional bodies below the 1500 if they cannot replace them.
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