Originally Posted by PilotJ3

Lol you're funny.

The 38 is not for the flow, is for the 2.5 for CA. Also, have they ever stopped the flow for other thing that is not returning furloughs or bankruptcy?

How's Allegiant??? Oh wait...that's right you probably don't even work there.

Originally Posted by ag386

Check with your reps. To be specific, 38 new hires per month are necessary to keep the flow going. It's 26 upgrades per month for the 2.5 year upgrade to be viable. Neither are happening right now. Keep in mind, both of these numbers are required EACH and EVERY month going forward. I would suggest you remove your head from the sand and pay attention to what your union is saying if you are unable to discern this information for yourself.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

You mean the 824 ? They haven't stopped it, but HAVE slowed it to minimum rate possible and for really no other valid reason other then they can.

There are 5 Envoy pilots out there with reduced AA seniority (a tangible loss) by being withheld in March. The relationship between the Envoy new-hire rate and the flow is not direct, but definately interrelated. If fewer pilots are brought on board then are lost to attrition which includes the flow, Envoy shrinks. If Envoy shrinks aside from needing fewer captains which slows the upgrade, Envoy cannot cover its flying and then parks aircraft. If Envoy starts parking aircraft (which soon will simply HAVE to happen considering the present hiring/attrition metrics) then that will ensure the flow runs at minimum rate, but it also dramatically increases the likelihood that other measures will be taken to preserve Envoy's viability. What those are is yet to be seen, but Envoy will not flow itself out of existence.

If the situation gets bad enough and Envoy starts to mimic Republic, they could also play the BK card and you can be sure the protected pilot flow provisions will be among the first contractual items on the block for modification as the core of that problem will be the lack of pilots just like Republic. Prior to such a situation (which also would be useful for renegotiating asset leases and even scrapping some of them), I would assume Envoy management would sit down with Envoy ALPA and you guessed it, just like so many times in the past offer them two choices of bad and worse. Bad would be voluntary agreement to modify the flow provisions giving some say to ALPA and worse would be a free ride via a judge to gut it to whatever extent they see fit with Envoy ALPA powerless on the sidelines.

Envoy is running a staffing deficit each and every month and not likely to get ahead of that curve even with a good month every now and then. The clock is ticking and so far no one has come up with a successful strategy to reset it.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

You mean the 824 ? They haven't stopped it, but HAVE slowed it to minimum rate possible and for really no other valid reason other then they can.

There are 5 Envoy pilots out there with reduced AA seniority (a tangible loss) by being withheld in March. The relationship between the Envoy new-hire rate and the flow is not direct, but definately interrelated. If fewer pilots are brought on board then are lost to attrition which includes the flow, Envoy shrinks. If Envoy shrinks aside from needing fewer captains which slows the upgrade, Envoy cannot cover its flying and then parks aircraft. If Envoy starts parking aircraft (which soon will simply HAVE to happen considering the present hiring/attrition metrics) then that will ensure the flow runs at minimum rate, but it also dramatically increases the likelihood that other measures will be taken to preserve Envoy's viability. What those are is yet to be seen, but Envoy will not flow itself out of existence.

If the situation gets bad enough and Envoy starts to mimic Republic, they could also play the BK card and you can be sure the protected pilot flow provisions will be among the first contractual items on the block for modification as the core of that problem will be the lack of pilots just like Republic. Prior to such a situation (which also would be useful for renegotiating asset leases and even scrapping some of them), I would assume Envoy management would sit down with Envoy ALPA and you guessed it, just like so many times in the past offer them two choices of bad and worse. Bad would be voluntary agreement to modify the flow provisions giving some say to ALPA and worse would be a free ride via a judge to gut it to whatever extent they see fit with Envoy ALPA powerless on the sidelines.

Envoy is running a staffing deficit each and every month and not likely to get ahead of that curve even with a good month every now and then. The clock is ticking and so far no one has come up with a successful strategy to reset it.

Originally Posted by Eaglepilot84

On another note, I actually got through a few sentences of what the mentally unstable eaglefly said...is he now claiming that envoy will be declaring bankruptcy in the near future?! Hahahahahahhahaha now I've heard it all

Originally Posted by PilotJ3

We went thru BK without the PP touched. Why? Because it CANT BE TOUCHED!!!

Do you think AAG will send Envoy Thru BK alone, their bigger WO feeder? Clearly another eaglefly If.

I know you will write probably 5-10 paragraphs of opinions next. So...see you next time, enjoy the crazy room.